eskrima doesn’t focus on the centerline that way though, for example.
–the numbered angles r denoted from a central axis model … care 2 explain?
i think there is a strong similarity in wing chun and fencing thought. and perhaps, as you suggest, the thoughts of a lot of other schools.
–old as dirt … strike where a person lives
that’s one way in which i do believe bruce should be acknowledged. there were common themes running through a lot of arts. . . at a time when many westerners may have been concentrating more on the differences between styles. getting wrapped up in the pomp and circumstance rather than the underlying truth.
–blame the japs … post ww2 sports karate drive … blame american’s … just can’t wait to dabble in the next great thingamagig … hippies died off … new agers were infants … setting was right
good chance we would have. good chance we wouldn’t. depends on the people involved, i suppose.
–wouldn’t have made sh*it difference to me … wouldn’t have mattered to many others … underground … things are smokin’
as for his practice being flat out wrong, i’m not touching that.
–good thing … he was all screwed up
i don’t believe it. but since i wasn’t there, i’m not going to speculate. enough to say that, for the most part, i agree with you. just not on that particular count.
–read his books & then run his training methods against ? school boys learn in college … sports science … or run his ways against tcma ways (centuries of validation) … doesn’t matter … he’s dead & people do ? they want no matter ?
the numbered angles don’t <i>focus</i> on the centerline though. most systems have between 9 and 12 angles. Perhaps between 1 and 3 of them are thrusts to the centerline (based on the four or five numbering systems i’ve seen: two from different schools of doce pares, one from dan inosanto, and one from floro villabrille).
obviously, any system is going to acknowledge a centerline. and you’re right that many, many systems think in terms of sectoring the targets (quadrants, in your example). but my point was that wing chun and fencing both seem to focus strongly on occupying that straight line between combatants. off the top of my head, i’d imagine that the same could be said of xingyi. other styles, too, i’m certain.
in any event, my argument was not that this attribute is unique to those two styles. only that it was a thread of commonality in two styles that, through circumstance, bruce lee was exposed to.
Greetings Sifu Davis. I’m a JKD practitioner from Los Angeles. I understand that you stay completely faithful to Sijo Lee’s original teachings in your training/teaching of JKD. I was curious about one thing though. Do you train in any other methods to build attributes that JFJKD technique may lack>? thanx in advance.
All that I currently train in is Jun Fan Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do, along with a healthy dose of Wing Chun Gung Fu to constantly reinforce my structure. I have not found anything “lacking”, nor have I felt that I really need anything else! Before I trained exclusively in Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do, I cross trained in Northern Shaolin Gung Fu, Ed Parker’s American Kenpo Karate, Filipino Kali and Kuntaw, Wu Wei Gung Fu, Shin Pao Chuan Gung Fu, Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do! It was when I trained in those arts that I felt “incomplete”! I knew that I had found my martial arts home when I started training in Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do! Everything just “clicked” and things fell right into place! I don’t practice any of those other arts now, nor do I ever intend to go back to them!
Ryu: I know you’re there! Come on! Pick up. Pick up pick up pick up pick up
ring ring ring
ring ring ring
Ryu: Don’t worry guys, I’ll stay on the line until I get his answers for ya!
In all seriousness, why hate a deceased man because of what others have made him into? I don’t think there is much that is more unfair than that. I don’t do any WC at all, and I don’t trap or straigtblast. I box and grapple, and I consider what I do Jeet Kune Do. In fact I could name it that (formally) if I wished.
So relax.
Thanks for the welcome! I’m glad that you enjoyed my articles! I am currently writing for Xin Combat (New Combat) magazine in Hong Kong. I will have articles on Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do in every issue from now on! I am also working on a new book to be published in Hong Kong. Do you have my first book, “Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do Scientific Streetfighting”? I have another book coming out in February titled “Jeet Kune Do Hardcore Training & Strategies Guide”. By the way, I also have my own magazine now, titled Hardcore Jeet Kune Do! It is a subscription only publication. Let me know if you are interested, and I’ll post subscription information! Anyway, thanks again for the welcome and I hope to hear from you often!
To Ryu!
NO! What you are doing is NOT Jeet Kune Do, and you shouldn’t call it that! You MIGHT be doing what is referred to as “JKD concepts”! You can say whatever you like, but it IS NOT Jeet Kune Do! It is your kind of posts that lead people to believe that one can just do anything they want and call it Jeet Kune Do! THAT IS WRONG! Jeet Kune Do is not just a smorgasboard of “everything but the kitchen sink”, like some seem to believe! Also, I am very serious about what I do, and your smarta** attitude doesn’t get it with me! I’ve been in this art for twenty-four years, and was researching it long before that, so believe me when I say that I know what Jeet Kune Do is! Your severe lack of respect does not impress me!
Pardon me, Mr. Davis, but I do not take well to being talked to like that especially when one so obviously misunderstands my post.
I am not saying that JKD is a smorgesborge of techniques, and yes I am a certified instructor in JKD concepts under Paul Vunak. So if I so wish, I will call what I do whatever I like. The blood, sweat, and pain I have gone through with true “hardcore” training is something I hold dear.
I was telling the people on this board that to “bash” someone like Bruce (who did what he did because of the beauty of self-expression, efficiency, and personal love) just because some people make him an “idol” is foolish.
I will have you know, sir, that on this board I am ANYTHING but a “smartA SS” as you have so ignorantly called me.
If there is one person who enjoys Bruce’s thoughts, dreams, and martial art it would be me. I do not know what you “think” I was trying to say in that post, but you have greatly misunderstood.
Yes, I am a JKD concepts man. Yes I have rank in the art, and yes I am a hardcore trainer. I do not trap, and I do not do wing chun. I am a boxing/grappling man who trains in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, judo, and kickboxing.
What I do is not what you do, and what you do is not what I do.
If Bruce were alive, I think he would roll his eyes at this entire discussion.
I have heard and read about you in a lot of magazines, and I am disappointed in how you have reacted here. ESPECIALLY since I am defending Bruce and JKD (or JKD concepts whatever the hell that means)
Such political bickering is the exact reason JKD is in the state it is in.
Thank you for putting me in a rather bad mood.
It won’t last for more than 10 minutes, but it still is rather annoying.
Goodnight sir, please try to understand the post before you respond with insulting, ridiculing, and downright childish words.
In defence of Ryu, Im just going to post the last entry in Bruce Lee’s own book “Tao of Jeet Kune Do”.
“If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from ‘this’ or from ‘that’, then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is JUST A NAME. Please don’t fuss over it.”
Now I could have sworn that what Ryu does is in no way contry to this statement and I would say your reply certainly was.
Judging this quote comes from Bruce Lee the creator of Jeet Kune Do, the same man your pertaining to be teaching the methods of. Tell me who was in the wrong?
if it makes you feel any better, this weekend i was hanging out with the pals, and every single joke we had came back to some “sticky buns” (cinammon rolls) one of the guys had bought. as funny as the jokes were, i kept thinking of your battles as the courageous fistibuns, and i laughed even harder.
i know it wasn’t intentional, but thanks for the grins.
Lamar,
So you can throw around the name Wing Chun, an art that the founder of your art never mastered, but you get ticked off at Ryu for saying he does JKD?
Thanks for reminding me why I thought so many JKD guys I’ve trained with came across as hypocrites, because they are.
For reminding me why I quit coming to this forum years ago in the first place! In case you didn’t know, I used to be the Moderator of the Jeet Kune Do forum! I finally gave it up because of the “anything goes as Jeet Kune Do” attitude carried on by so many who were posting on the forum! It is posts like these that let me know that there is little hope for some people EVER understanding what Bruce Lee’s martial art is really about! I am not real big on constantly arguing with people about this, so why can’t we just agree to disagree, get on with life and get along! OK?
To Ryu:
I apologize for jumping down your throat like I did! Maybe I did misunderstand where you were coming from with the Bruce/phone thing! It just seemed awfully disrespectful to me! Also, I have done nothing “ignorantly”, as there is nothing “ignorant” about me! You have to understand where I am coming from here, too, you know! I have spent over half of my life researching and training in Bruce Lee’s fighting methods. I have a guy training with me now who also studies boxing and jiu jitsu! He recently started training with me because he realizes that what he is already doing is NOT Jeet Kune Do! He wanted to learn about what Bruce Lee was actually doing! He clearly sees a difference, and there is one! A BIG DIFFERENCE!
To rogue:
I am not a hypocrite! FAR FROM IT! I stick to my guns no matter what! That NEVER changes! Hypocrites say one thing and do another! I always do exactly what I say I will do! I believe in my art and I will stand up for it anytime, anywhere! What is wrong with that? I would expect the same from you or anyone else who believes in what they are doing!
To jon:
Once again, here we go with someone quoting philosophisms and taking the meaning way out of context! If Bruce Lee had lived, the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, if even published, would have been DRASTICALLY different from what we have today! Also, that statement that you quoted did not say what JKD is, it just said that he doesn’t want people fussing over it! When this was written, he was still with us! Large and in charge, as the saying goes! He was here to clearly show us exactly what Jeet Kune do was, therefore no need to fuss over anything, as the proof was right before you! Now that he is not with us, it is as if fifty different players tried to take the same ball and run in different directions with it! That just doesn’t work!
Mr. Davis,
It’s okay. I apologize too for getting angry. The Bruce phone call thing is kind of a running gag on this forum that I started. It basically says that one shouldn’t insult Bruce for petty matters, or he said/she said type arguments. It really wasn’t meant to be disrespectful at all. Bruce is a man I will always have respect for.
I do understand where you are coming from considering how long you have devoted yourself to what you do. And I do apologize for calling you ignorant.
Thank you for you apology as well. It’s accepted, and we’ll just move on.
On Ryu-Vunak is not my cup of tea either but I recognize his validity as did Inosanto so if one of his certified instructors is calling what he does JKD then so be it. It’s not exactly the same JKD you practice but if ever I went into an art where the way that one instructor did it was the only way, I’d bail. And personally, rereading the posts, Ryu had a sense of humor while you were downright nasty to him.
On Rogue-hypocrisy is not just being inconsistent in your own actions. His point was you wished to hold people to a standard of behavior in reference to respect for the name of the art that you were not demonstrating.
On Jon, you can argue it would have been different if Bruce had lived. I agree. The point is I don’t know how it would have been different whereas you claim to. And he didn’t live so if we are to follow what Lee taught which is the big sticking point for many JKD instructors then what better source do we have than his writings/quotes? And whether you agree with the quote, that is what he said. You want to find a contradictory quote and say, “See, he retracted that.” Great!!
I do not intend to be disrespectful to you but I I believe that there is a certain validity to the JKD concepts argument. And it’s not like they stole the name. The big names in that camp were certified by Lee’s students as well. So please show that camp the same respect that you ask people show of you. Obviously someone qualified thought what they were doing WAS Jeet Kune Do.
Politics has reared its ugly head and things are torn. Just what he seemed to fear based on Jon’s quote.
Don’t mistake the exclamation points as yelling! This sifu sounds rather optimistic and encouraging! He really sounds like he enjoys and loves training! Bruce Lee is awesome! I was told by my hardcore bad tempered JKD friend that if I said anything bad about Bruce or Dan Inosanto, my face would be introduced to his fists! O yes..and i am a ninja and very excited about being one too! And of course, hardcore training is the core and nucleus of JKD along with techniques that not only work..but look COOL! Wy fight for real when you can look as cool as they do fighting in the movies!
Funny. I went to visit a JKD school a few weeks a go and saw not a tiny bit of Wing Chun. What I saw was boxing, Arnis, and Thai boxing. I was wondering about the “nucleus” myself. What I did witness was pure comedy. A bunch of guy’s dancing around like Bruce did in the movies. Most did’nt know how to make a fist. What bothered me most was the eerie tribal drum playing on tape the entire time of the class. What is up with that??? I just know Bruce wanted this!
Maybe JKD guys should all take up a few years of Wing Chun first the way that Bruce did and perhaps it might give them a better idea of what Bruce was thinking. Strange that I should say this because we actually have a good bit of ex-JKDers joining our school lately.
As far as Bruce discarding elements of WC that did’nt work for him - well, maybe those very same elements work for other people who study/studied Wing Chun. Remember, it was only “Bruce’s” interpretation of Wing Chun that brought him to the JKD conclusion.
Coming from a “hardcore” Wing Chun man - I hope I have’nt insulted anyone here. Just my coupla cents worth.
Don’t worry guys, I’ll stay on the line until I get his answers for ya!
