really?
BJJ has kicks and punchs?
BJJ has kicks and punches?
They focus on them like WC focuses on groundfighting, yeah 
Again, its not an art superiority thing, and I don’t think everybody needs to become a groundfighting expert. Being a decent BJJ blue belt with some time in, is probably enough to get you back on your feet, most of the time. The rest is simply for love of the art. I make an assumption (I might be wrong) that WC is similar–you should be able to handle MOST of what comes at you after a certain period of time, and the rest of the time spent is for love of the art.
Originally posted by Shäolin
[B]
Well I for one am not aware of anything as dynamic as Wing Chun 
If by dynamic one means:
a) Of or relating to energy or to objects in motion.
b) Of or relating to the study of dynamics.
- Characterized by continuous change, activity, or progress.
Marked by intensity and vigor; forceful. See Synonyms at active.
Of or relating to variation of intensity.
[/B]
I think your posts on this topic have been somewhat naive. I always make a distinction between STANDUP styles and Grappling styles. Grappling can happen on the feet as well as on the ground. The fact is, I train WingTsun for standup. Yes, WT and some other WC branches have done their best to fit Wingchun into the ground fight, but it must be accepted that that is not what Wingchun was designed for. I have Judo to back me up for grappling and ground fighting. If you do not have any grappling experince, I strongly suggest you get some before you find yourself in a violent encounter and get hurt.
If you look at boxing as a standup style, it is awsome. If you look at it as Total self defence, it sucks. That is becasue boxing is only designed for standup. It can be used in conjunction with a grappling style like wrestling as a devastating combination. The same is the case for Wing Chun. Wing Chun, all branches, are traditionally Chinese ‘boxing’. The true history of Wing Chun is not known. Who’s to say that the poepl who devised it did not use it in conjunction with some grappling styles like Chin-Na (Chinese wrestling)? To claim Wing Chun is total self defence after everything MMA has taught us is ludicrous.
how many are training for MMA?..
I am not,and I believe that it should not be a valable reason to learn Wing Chun.
Wing Chun is very effective as a self-defense system when it’s principles are followed and it is well suited to the ordinary people who could’nt care less about sport fighting (no disrespect intended at those who think otherwise!)
A self-defense thing is nothing like a ring fight and a well placed and timed punch could hurt even a guy like Royce Gracie and knock him out!..
Who knows what can happen in the street?..Who can really predict that this technique or that other one will work?..We live in an unpredictable world and no one has all the answers.
Anybody can win or lose.Could he be a great champion in the ring or just the average martial artist.Or…The untrained person with a will to defend himself.
I dont think this issue will be solved on the “technique” level. I think that it is mainly a training issue. On top of all that Martial Artist can be surprisingly ignorant when it comes to hand to hand combat sometimes. They often fall into the trap of believing that the way they train is the way most fights will go down. Look at the TMA guys who do MMA tournemants and such. These guys go in and then get tackled and beaten to a pulp. I say if you want to learn to use your art to fight them get together with some of them and fight. Train with them and see what happens. WC has just as many answers to the problems of grappling as any art needs to, its just a lack of understanding on wingchun thet gets most people in trouble.
Beautiful.
Its all about training. Most people forget that chi sau is just a training aid, it will not teach you to fight. Its about time we saw some guy who cross train in WC/Wt have some success in MMA, otherwise people are gonna completely lose confidence in the system, ans Wing Chun will just have to categorised with other types of ‘gung-fu’.
There are things somebody with two years of Chi Sau just could’nt see or feel. There are things a five years experimented guy in Chi Sau still can’t!..We can learn forever in Chi Sau if we are honest with ourselves and take care not to think that we are there!.. Chi Sau is a lot more than relaxing the limbs or a sensitivity drill.
You can learn forever in chi sao, yet not everything can be learned in chi sao. I would also argue that there are things which you may train in chi sao which you will only realize you can train in chi sao by going outside of it. It’s a tool. A good one, a fun one, but merely a tool much like (insert name here)
FWIW,
Andrew
Originally posted by UltimateFighter
Its all about training. Most people forget that chi sau is just a training aid, it will not teach you to fight. Its about time we saw some guy who cross train in WC/Wt have some success in MMA, otherwise people are gonna completely lose confidence in the system, ans Wing Chun will just have to categorised with other types of ‘gung-fu’.
What’s wrong with other types of Gong-Fu? I’ve seen and experienced great northern mantis, shaui chiao, and Taiji. Xing-yi looks awesome and so does Longfist. Wing Chun is unique but it’s no better or worse than the rest. It is not wise to judge styles based on a few poor performances in the UFC. Hey, I’ve seen JKD guys get beat down in the UFC, does that mean JKD is a lesser style? Now what you said about training is true.
I am not a ‘Kung Fu’ fighter. ‘Kung Fu’ is a generic term that covers literally hundreds of styles, many of which are unrelated. And you are correct, I do not rate most styles of Kung Fu becasue they have shown no evidence of being effecive. The only systems of Kung fu I personally rate at all are Shaolin (The mother art), Wing Chun, and San Sou.
Preying Mantis and monkey style etc I prefer to leave to the Chinese opera. But each to his own. MMA is a VERY realsitic rperesantion of what works and doesn’t in the real world. I see no reason why Wing Chun cannot be effective as a standup style to cross train in, but it is a matter of trainin for that specific event.
kung fu
Kung Fu is a misused term. It doesn’t even mean martial arts. I have looked it up in the past and found definitions like “human effort” and “applied skill.” It can be related to anything from baseball to cooking. Wushu is literally translated as fighting arts or military arts. This is the word I think many people intend to use when discussing fighting styles. The word kung fu has been misused for so long, it is all americans know to call chinese styles of fighting.
Originally posted by UltimateFighter
I do not rate most styles of Kung Fu becasue they have shown no evidence of being effecive.
They have shown no evidence to you. I have experienced other styles of Kung fu, that have made intuitive sense to me, and been demonstrated on me. After a while, as I’m sure you know, you start to be able to understand martial arts when they are personally presented to you, and you pass judgement on the techniques and their practicioners–this is good, I can’t figure out what that one’s for, looks too complicated, but that one looks/feels legit, I need to be able to deal with that. I never saw anything that was better as a complete system than Wingchun. But what I realized is that most quality Chinese martial arts are really highly developed. I would expect the same of Phillipino and other ethnic group’s martial arts. They may primarily deal with a certain battle strategy that is not so relavent today in certain cases, not all of them are good for kickboxing or sportfighting, not all of them are good for close-quarters weapons defense techniques, but fortunately many are good and adaptable to the ring and modern self-defense needs, like Wing Chun and others.
Merryprankster had it right. Lots of good wing chun people
dont pay attention to TV-UFC.
UF can make of that what he wants to. Regarding his comments on mantis—there are different kinds- good jook lum mantis folks
are not likely to care either.