[QUOTE=t_niehoff;936000]Yes, you’re correct – it started with Henry Leung.
I’m not saying that as a martial art it is any less “valid” (whatever that means) because its lineage BEGAN with Henry Leung.
Very true. The difference is, of course, that Bruce Lee took credit for creating JKD – and didn’t make up numerous stories of where JKD came from.
Where have I heard that refrain before?
Yip Man WCK has numerous “signatures”, and BHWCK has those “signatures”. I won’t argue that Leung and his students may have gone their own way with BHWCK but I think its clear that it started out as YMWCK.[/QUOTE]
Yip Man WCK and BHWCK are very different.It’s not just what I think but what most people who have met me or my teacher who have said over and over that our WC is very different. As far as Henry Leung making it up or using verious stories as far as where BHWC comes from.Myself I’ve only heard one story the other stories come from mostly his students. What ever the case may be, lineage is not really important. What’s important is what 's being presented.If someone wanted to really know what BHWC was about you will not find out about it here. You need to see for your self.
So Buddha Hand exists on its own and is different than Yip Man Wing Chun.
Why does Black Flag keep trying to change its history?
And why does Hendrik keep spewing garbage that is that is just plain wrong?
Hendrik, I guess you really can’t put the history together correctly. By the way, why are you STILL the only one claiming WC comes from White Crane? Sounds crazy and like gibberish to me! I hope your therapist helps you work through this difficult time.
[QUOTE=Rolf;936155]So Buddha Hand exists on its own and is different than Yip Man Wing Chun.
Why does Black Flag keep trying to change its history?
And why does Hendrik keep spewing garbage that is that is just plain wrong?
Hendrik, I guess you really cant put the history together correctly. By the way, why are you STILL the only one claiming WC comes from White Crane? Sounds crazy and like gibberish to me! I hope your therapist helps you work through this difficult time.[/QUOTE]
I certainly wont expect those who couldnt even capable of read time line and simple number such as Year and date to be able to think like a normal human.
All the ZEN Shao Lin… Energy … Time… Space… Anti Qing… Understanding… all type of Kiu Sau… all type of …
these type of teaching are Not Zen or Buddhism at all, in fact these type of teaching is totally upside down — Polished brick trying to make mirror.
these type of teaching is Chinese cult teaching in ancient China..
Most today are just mislead and lost but still with their Self-Rigtheousness delusion thinking they UNDERSTAND the truth.
Here are some simple and proper introduction of what is Zen.
WCner wake up! See clearly and attain but Dont understand,
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;936043]Yip Man WCK and BHWCK are very different. It’s not just what I think but what most people who have met me or my teacher who have said over and over that our WC is very different.
[/QUOTE]
It may - and I stress may – be very different NOW. So what? That doesn’t mean that YM may not have been the source. We were talking about history, remember? You brought that up. So the question is where BH came from. And my point is that it came from Yip Man lineage (who precisely taught Leung WCK we don’t know since Leung hasn’t ever told the truth about that) via Henry Leung, who took YM WCK and modified it into BH.
As far as Henry Leung making it up or using verious stories as far as where BHWC comes from.Myself I’ve only heard one story the other stories come from mostly his students. What ever the case may be, lineage is not really important.
Lineage is important if you are talking about WCK history (that topic you brought up). WCK history is essentially lineage.
And as far as you only hearing one story and others coming from his students – where do you think they got them from? Hmm? Let me give you a hint: Henry Leung.
Of course, you could prove Henry Leung didn’t create BH WCK from YM WCK by simply producing a BH WCK practitioner that predates Leung. But,we both know that won’t happen.
What’s important is what 's being presented.If someone wanted to really know what BHWC was about you will not find out about it here. You need to see for your self.
If someone were interested in BH WCK, then they should check it out. Why someone would be interested, I can’t imagine.
[QUOTE=Rolf;936155]Why does Black Flag keep trying to change its history?
[/QUOTE]
It’s history doesn’t change. The story being presented as its history changes. And that story changes since it is still a work in progress. That story is marketing, an attempt to sell Black Flag to the gullible using “history” as some sort of proof or bona fide of its “power” as a marital art. This is an old dodge that continues to be used.
Quite frankly, anyone today (with all we knoow) who buys into that sort of rubbish is IMHO either extremely gullible or an idiot.
BHWC and WC from DL lineage have nothing in common. Both styles are completly different. They are as far apart as two WC styles can be. My Si Dai did 9 years of this style of WC. and he can tell you it has no similarites what so ever.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;936296]BHWC and WC from DL lineage have nothing in common. Both styles are completly different. They are as far apart as two WC styles can be. My Si Dai did 9 years of this style of WC. and he can tell you it has no similarites what so ever.[/QUOTE]
Sontecrusher69,
Why get into this path? IMHO, drop it before it got too far.
I know the teaching of my late sigung Ven Hsu Yun very well.
so, I hope you drop this discussion. Say you dont know and Get out of it the easy way.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;936296]BHWC and WC from DL lineage have nothing in common. Both styles are completly different. They are as far apart as two WC styles can be. My Si Dai did 9 years of this style of WC. and he can tell you it has no similarites what so ever.[/QUOTE]
I am only suggesting many read the book Wing Chun Warrior and read Duncan Leung’s side of the story. William Cheung also mentioned once that Henry Leung learned from Duncan Leung and made up his own system.
I am from NYC. I even learned briefly from Henry and even had friends learn from Henry. I have heard the made up stories and false history of Fut Sao WCK for many years. Some of them border on fantasy and superstitious. Others like having Buddhist grandmaster Hsu Yun teaching him WCK is utterly false, as well as linking his last name to Leung Bok Chau, Leung Yee Tai, Leung Jan (alleged famous ancestors).
I think some Fut Sao people are absolutely skilled. There is no denying that. Skill is effort over time and some are gifted and talented individuals. But as to the his-story and lineage… :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=chusauli;936338] But as to the his-story and lineage… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Robert,
all the Shao Lin Zen his-story trying to gain upper hand in WCK lineage is just too much.
Compare the teaching of those who keep saying Zen Zen Shao lin Shao lin or even tan Sau Ng to the following clear description of Zen in youtube ,
one will see, all of these people who create his-story dont even have the basic of Zen but self invention totally off and opposite to the path of Zen.
how can one preach , promote ,and design martial art for anti-qing when one’s believe is to let go of attachement which is the totally opposite? make sense only it is a make up story.
[QUOTE=chusauli;936338]I am only suggesting many read the book Wing Chun Warrior and read Duncan Leung’s side of the story. William Cheung also mentioned once that Henry Leung learned from Duncan Leung and made up his own system.
I am from NYC. I even learned briefly from Henry and even had friends learn from Henry. I have heard the made up stories and false history of Fut Sao WCK for many years. Some of them border on fantasy and superstitious. Others like having Buddhist grandmaster Hsu Yun teaching him WCK is utterly false, as well as linking his last name to Leung Bok Chau, Leung Yee Tai, Leung Jan (alleged famous ancestors).
I think some Fut Sao people are absolutely skilled. There is no denying that. Skill is effort over time and some are gifted and talented individuals. But as to the his-story and lineage… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know you learned very briefly from Henry.I also know there are many stories about FSWC. Howerever no one can say for sure who Henry learned from.The book you mentioned " Wing Chun Warrior" I have never read,but my Si- Dai has the book and told me he can’t remember any mention of Henry Leung in his book.I don’t believe Duncan Leung has made any officail public statments about Henry or Futsao. Again, if you compare Fut sao alone side Duncan system it’s very easy to see they have nothing in common. If the root of Henry WC is Duncan then there would be a connection which I see none at all.It is different in every respect. As far as the history of FSWC we are currently lokking into this and have obtain varifieable information on FSWC from China. When we are ready we may publish it.
Yes, well, the worst story I heard was when Henry was allegedly locked in a box and GM Hsu Yun had just expired, and gave him instructions from beyond to tell Henry to use the inch power punch to break free.
Utterly nonsense.
When Grand Master Hsu Yun was taken by the Red Guard and beaten, he didn’t use his deadly WCK skills. He simply let them tie him up and beat him. A true bodhisattva in every sense, he would not have adopted Henry Leung, let alone teach him WCK. Hsu Yun did not know WCK, nor did he have any need for it. His understanding of the Shurangama Mantra and Sutra was enough to uphold.
Of course, naive fools will believe any story, no matter how exaggerated.
[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;936361]Yes, I know you learned very briefly from Henry.I also know there are many stories about FSWC. Howerever no one can say for sure who Henry learned from.The book you mentioned " Wing Chun Warrior" I have never read,but my Si- Dai has the book and told me he can’t remember any mention of Henry Leung in his book.I don’t believe Duncan Leung has made any officail public statments about Henry or Futsao. Again, if you compare Fut sao alone side Duncan system it’s very easy to see they have nothing in common. If the root of Henry WC is Duncan then there would be a connection which I see none at all.It is different in every respect. As far as the history of FSWC we are currently lokking into this and have obtain varifieable information on FSWC from China. When we are ready we may publish it.[/QUOTE]
I’m sure if you could come forth with verifiable evidence of Fut Sao WCK and how Henry Leung is connected to it, you would.
Read the book. You’ll know exactly whom Duncan Leung is talking about. Better yet, call Duncan Leung.
When we are ready we will come forth,but on our time no one else’s. Yes,I know about the stories,again forget the stories look at the man’s skill and what he had to offer.When you look at that the rest does not matter.
Pointing out lies and stories and histories in kung fu circles ends up being nothing but gossip. What’s next the William Cheung TWC? Or Leung Ting’s doctored photo’s with Yip Man? The truth is it does come down to the skill of the teacher’s more than their history, even Yip Man’s history is questioned… Even with Benny Meng being the recent target of gossip, if your in the know it;s different but there’s way too much gossip from all the “well wishers”
all the Shao Lin Zen his-story trying to gain upper hand in WCK lineage is just too much.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I enjoy your made-up story about everything coming from white crane. Even though some branches of WC existed before your white crane system, Wong Wa Bo anyone?
Compare the teaching of those who keep saying Zen Zen Shao lin Shao lin or even tan Sau Ng to the following clear description of Zen in youtube ,
one will see, all of these people who create his-story dont even have the basic of Zen but self invention totally off and opposite to the path of Zen.
how can one preach , promote ,and design martial art for anti-qing when one’s believe is to let go of attachement which is the totally opposite? make sense only it is a make up story.
