Ap,
You are a tribute to the symbiote-collective-gestalt.
well, i do what i can. and god knows dezhen has been carrying his weight. but that other guy…
KC, yep. I think the concept of qi and exercises that develop it are really developing that, an unusual amount of body control. I personally don’t think there is a mystical energy involved, just that by a concentrated effort to control every muscle in your body and focus every fiber into one action, you become capable of doing things that seem pretty incredible.
Originally posted by Losttrak
Kip Up is in the dictionary?!?!? looks at Webster Dictionary site Doh.. dont see it. =)
‘kip down’ is in the dictionary. that, at least, established the fact that it was a term derived from english not chinese. it would’ve been the right track.
but that’s not really the point. the point is that there’s no real need to get bent outta shape. (that goes for me too.)
stuart b.
"One entry found for kip.
Main Entry: 3kip
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): kipped; kip·ping
Date: circa 1889
British : SLEEP – sometimes used with down <kip down on a spare bed – Alice Glenday> "
I knew the British were behind this conspiracy…
dropkicks the nearest crumpet
JK all you Anglophiles
oh great. first, thomas makes off with all our muffins. now this.
Ap, We’ve also got your toffee. Submit to our demands. We have a simple list of demands:
-armour is heretofore to be spelled armor
That’s it.
Originally posted by KC Elbows
[B]Ap, We’ve also got your toffee. Submit to our demands. We have a simple list of demands:
-armour is heretofore to be spelled armor
That’s it. [/B]
LOL
Ap has meters of grey-coloured armour in his skilful sulphour centre, but it sometimes gets stuck on his moustache when he ploughs.
Forms = Superb balance and coordination in movement.
that’s true. but it’s all made of aluminium. so it works out.
That’s it, the toffee and muffins get it if you don’t start taking this situation seriously. Don’t believe me?
[EATS TOFFEE]
HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!
Did someone say something about forms?
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
[B][i]
Why did it take the advent of full contact kickboxing in the late 60’s and early 70’s to show people that the best place to put their hands was near their face and not on their hip? People become enamored with the mystery that surrounds the Asian martial arts.. [/B]
this is the most giest statement…wich i think well points out what his marketing goals are…to be that next newage scientific tony power-bruce lee mother*er 
that was karate who places thier fists strictly at hips…talking about lameass kickboxing in the 70s…i know for a fact hop gar from two hundered years ago would place thier fist above thier head, or at thier face or at thier ribs or at thier groin or really depending on wherever you want to trick someone. blah dont care about what hes saying i just felt like pointing out his pomposity or however thats spelled if its even a word.
Originally posted by KC Elbows
[B]That’s it, the toffee and muffins get it if you don’t start taking this situation seriously. Don’t believe me?
[EATS TOFFEE]
HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!
Did someone say something about forms? [/B]
LOL
again.
but now i know you’re bluffing. if you’d really eaten an english toffee, you wouldn’t have been laughing. at best, it would’ve been a muffled MMWUFFMMWUFF…
hmm… perhaps that’s why british people’s teeth are so buggered up.
stuart b.
ST00
I have really enjoyed most of your posts where you are discussing
throwing and fighting. You definitely know what you are talking
about.
But, I have to ask what is behind the continuous assault on
cma? forms in particular.
Why can’t cma people keep doing what it is they want to do
without having to defend their methods. Don’t get me wrong,
having to defend your process makes you critique it and that
usually makes something better. But, this is a ‘kung fu’ board
and ‘kung fu’ systems are mostly, but not always, concerned
with forms and the principles built into them. Everytime I turn
around there is some bjj/mma guy attacking cma and it’s getting
a little old. I know is a free country (and board) but how many
times do we have to see it. Why do you hang out reading and
posting here if there is nothing here for you to learn.
OK. BJJ/MMA folks think CMA people are stupid for waisting
there time working from forms. Point Taken. I’ll stay over here
and play my forms till I can’t stand up and you stay over there
and roll till you puke and won’t we both be happy
What I’m curious about is what prompted your deep seated
derision of forms?
I know, I know you’re tired of all the cma types that claim that
all they need is their forms and that their art is too deadly to
take into the ring. Granted you can run into those people but
I don’t think I’ve read anyone claiming that at all. Not lately
anyway. I think most of the regular posters here are giving
you guys your just due. I know I have in my posts.
so, what’s up? I’m honestly curious.
Also, have you ever learned a form?
How long did you work it?
Was it from someone who know what they
were doing? or a hack?
All I need is my forms and my art is waaaayyyyy too deadly for the ring! 
KC
“Some of us only have books with line drawings and mandarin notes to work off of, if even that. My style would be dead without the form.”
So now is the time to break those suckers down and get them on tape and disk. Then get into a photo studio and take some pictures.
I’ve never seen a karate fighter keep their hands at their hips when sparring. I have seen them keep their hands parralel to the floor chest height, I’ve seen one hand high one solar plexus height, I’ve seen many hand positions but never the dreaded hand on hip guard.
Re: Forms impress chicks…
Originally posted by MightyB
They also give you something to do when you’re too old to fight.
Dang it, MB, you’ve been watchin’ me work out!
I do disagree with a couple of assumptions made by some posters here:
a) that forms are just a catalog of moves. They are much more, which has been pointed out in several posts here. If that was all they were then yes, they’d be of limmited use. I have a Martial Arts Mart catalog. That doesn’t mean I have all the gooddies I want (someone tell Gene to settle down- I don’t have all the money I want either).
b) that those of us who work with forms don’t do contact fighting. Some don’t, I’m sure, just like some don’t do forms. Some don’t do either. I personally think that to short either part of your training is to dilute the art and loose several of the benifits of studying martial arts (those have already been listed here also).
As for the high stress/reality training, I’d love to attend a RMCAT course. I think they’d be extremely bennificial and informative. But for now I’ll have to settle for us ametures trying to stress each other while sparing or working out. I also agree that you loose a lot of your finer motor skills in a high stress situation. But the fewer skills you’ve learned, the greater the impact of loss of even a low degree of skill level.
Rogue, I was at Kali class the other night, and the instructor was talking about always keeping your guard up. He said he was talking to someone while back, and the guy he was talking to got into position throwing a cross. Then he took each defensive aspect of the shot away and it looked just like that karate hip/punch deal!
Whoops, just thought about it and I have seen the hand on the hip (kind of). But the front hand was up about chin level, the body was in a back stance and the back hand was down around hip level but in front. And I got hit in the gut by that hand, came in under the radar.
To add to what has been said, This article is loaded with self serving contradictions.
Such as the repetition of movements. When you only have the choice of four punches total, then repetition is unavaoidable. You will eventually throw the same combo again sometime. In most kung fu forms, the moves consist of many different types of attacks that are not limited to just box striking. You will not repeat the same move again until you do the form over.
The use of the word “dead” is self serving as well. It is only dead if the person doing the form does not have an idea of what the potential applications are and does not have force behind it due to a lack of intent. If you find something in forms that is not applicable, more times than not, its the fault of the student to understand. Don’t blame the form for your lack of understanding of it. I tell my student that my fighting is a brew of the totality of the things that I have experienced. You don’t use your form verbatim. Meaning, that it is a waste to try and make the situation your in to fit the form. Its the other way around, flowing with the situation is key. BUT, you have to have the discipline of movement behind you as a foundation. I wonder how many of you can actually name those moves you feel can’t be used. And, honestly ask yourself if its just because you don’t understand them or can’t see the potential in them.
This article is obviously made by someone that has never actually practiced form work in the CMA sense.
Timing , Impact , and reflex are very present in forms work. He’s never seen a two person weapon set apparently. You don’t have good timing there, you get cut.
The aliveness isn’t something that is devoid of form. The aliveness lives within the form. “Form” is the shape of something. Not even boxing is without form. Bruce Lee talked about this aliveness. But he had definate form. The rudiments of his moves came from somewhere. Unfortunatly, people took his idea in an exclusionist way and decided that cutting down whatever they did was enough. Where BL was the ultimate inclusionist. He wanted his students to learn from, but not be trapped by, the things they had already learned. Technically, he wanted his student go beyond his rudiments and go on to INCLUDE and grow in experience and potential movement.
Physical conditioning, at least in the KF forms I do, is also very present in an extreme way. In our school all manner of conditioning was done along with form work. Hard sparring was also an important ingredient in our “mix”. So I agree that forms alone are not the answer but they are part of the formula.
Bottom line this is an attempt to make oneself seem bigger by cutting others heads off.
RMCAT is cool too. But again, if you don’t have a good foundationm behind you. You’ll be spending your time in the equivalent of a white belt class learning how to FORM a fist.