I’ve heard a lot of people saying calisthenics are the way to go, but a lot of people here say we should do weight training? So which one is it? and could someone explain how the results of these two training methods differ?
premier
combo
What???
This has to be a joke question right??? The obvious answer is of course neither of them. If you practice a legitimate and reputable art then there is no need whatsoever for any other those two unrelated practices. Either the art you practice is defeicient or you’re not practising it right!
Yes. I can see why you call yourself repulsive. Thanks for your reply.
premier
Well, it depends on what you mean by “calisthenics.” But, why not do both? No one says you have to pick.
Of course, if I had to pick, I would pick weight lifting, because if you’re talking cardio you should get enough of that from your MA and form practice.
Iron
Wasn’t calisthenics supposed to be body weight exercises like pull ups etc? Basically the Matt Furey approach.
premier, nice comeback.
Arguably, KF forms and solo drills are specialised forms of calisthenics.
Tae-bo certainly is 
Larger weapons and those funny rings some guys put around their arms when practising are arguably forms of weight training.
There are few MA’s who don’t do some form of warm up calisthenics or specific stretching exercises.
I’ve not met a good MA teacher yet who didn’t advocate some form of supplementary training.
Simplistically, weights are better for sheer strength, calisthenics for muscular endurance, though there is a large amount of overlap. You could argue that pullups and dips are weight training exercises rather than calisthenics and vice versa, and even if they are calisthenics you can put on a weighted belt and make them into a lifting exercise.
Read as much as you can about exercise physiology and anatomy, and design a progam that suits your specific goals. Ask people you know in Real Life who know about this stuff.
Presumably you want to become a better MA and not a bodybuilder, powerlifter, or marathon runner - though it’s easy to lose focus if you’re not careful.
You could try a month of weights, then a month of calisthenics and see which works better for you. Maybe you could also keep that schedule, or mix the two up.
Everyone is different, the best way to find out what works for you is to experiment.
Premier
I apologise for being a bit rough initially, but I have to repeat myself here, if you’re art doesn’t do all the things you need then it may be an incomplete art. However it also depends on what it is you want? Do you want the art or do you want to build big muscles?
Sorry, Monkey, but I’ve yet to see an art that gives me the pressing power of a 300 lbs bench or the explosiveness of a 250 lbs snatch. Supplemental strength training can and will add to your art.
all else being equal, who would you rather face? someone with physical strength and size or someone who is physically weak?
I lift weights and do kung fu. Most days that I go to class, I lift weights at the school before doing kung fu.
I agree with Ford.
So do I. A good mix of cal. and weights will give you strength and endurance. I also run for my cardio.
If I could spend all day every day doing my KF then maybe I wouldn’t need any supplementary training.
I’ll agree with Repulsive on this one. If you practice correctly, the martial art should be enough to keep you fit and make you good at your martial art.
However, if you want to go beyond that, or if you want faster results from your martial art, then I’d go with weight training. Even just doing stances or even forms with weights in your hands or around your wrists and ankles will help you improve faster and probably more than just doing the martial art itself.
Robin
Martial arts will not increase your strength. If you were weak to start i may help a bit, but it will only help you cardiovascularly.
There are many ways to weight train so saying you will get big is a very ignorant thing to say. Even training for size will not work if your diet is such that your body has nothing to grow with.
Strength training with heavy weight and low reps will not leave you very sore, will not lead to a great amount of muscle hypertrophy, and will lead to a stronger skeleton, dense bones, better joints, and will prevent many debilitating effects of old age.
Without heavy stress you cannot strengthen your bone and skeletal system.
Everything has it’s purpose, martial arts isn’t the answer to every question in the universe. Sorry to disappoint you.
Semantics?
I’m not sure that some of the things being argued here aren’t just different terms for the same thing.
If you really think about it doing a form is just a really complicated calisthenic routine. So you can develop strength just from doing your forms. Some people like to breakdown forms and do certain sections repeatedly. And alot of Chi Gong exercises seem to be like body weight/calisthenic exercises.
I personally like to go with the muscle endurance/functional strength concepts ala Matt Furey. This is because I have little hope of becoming a big muscle guy and I would prefer to be able to do some of the flips and handstands in my style that benching 300lbs is never going to help me with.
Thats just my preference. I think the most important thing is what program is going to help you make progress towards your goals. For me working on bodyweight exercises using MA techniques seems to be the way to improve my MA.
Oh and robin I will disagree with you on this…fit can be defined many ways and isn’t a good way to define things.
I look at marathon runners who can run forever without getting to tired and think they are diseased because of their lack of strength and absence of any muscle mass. That is because they are not what I consider ideal. Everyone has their own outlook so dependant on your goals there is no true answer to what is the best way to train.
i’m down with EP on this one for sure…
can you practice MA exclusively and become a great martial artist?? of course. but you can certainly enhance your abilities with strength and endurance training, and therefore become a better martial artist. that is what sports science is all about. this is not to say that stength and flexibility issues don’t crop up on both side of the argument, but you can certainly design your routine to maximize what’s important to YOU and YOUR needs.
that’s the beauty of the system… =)
premier…you can easily incorporate the two. it’s isn’t (nor should it be) an either/or issue… mr fury has some excellent points, and i enjoy his work, but he is not the “end all” of fitness information. in fact, sometimes his premises are extremely questionable. besides, there’s a lot of bioindividuality out there. have you seen that guy?? his body type is NOTHING like mine.
ElPietro,
Not sure I understand where your disagreement is. Fit in the broadest general sense is being the proper weight, blood pressure, etc. for your particular body. That’s the definition I was using.
Also, if you practice your martial art, you are doing bodyweight exercises. Some forms, at least in my style, have you go into a pushup position then push yourself up and turn over in the air to land again in a push up. You’re telling me that no matter how much I practice this one, I won’t become physically stronger? Also, many forms go from a low stance and go up into a high stance and then back into a low stance. So this won’t strengthen my legs at all? Not to mention the time spent in the low stances–that won’t strengthen my legs? There are also turning and/or twisting kicks and punches–I see a bit of abdominal work in this. Not to mention some styles have specialty techniques like kipup, iron bridge from standing with no hands, etc.. Practicing these won’t strengthen a person?
Are you saying it’s impossible to get stronger without using weights?
Robin
Just to clarify things a bit. As a lot of you already realised, when I talk about weight training, I’m not talking about bodybuilding. More like maximum strength training. To be honest this thread is more like Tsatsouline vs. Furey. Just didn’t want to bring it up like that.
So you’re saying these two should be combined? Does these two develope different kind of power? like calisthenics muscle endurance and weight training maximum strength or explosive strength?
Repulsive monkey
I know what you mean. It’s just that I felt you were insulting me and my style on your first reply. Anyway, I know I can be pretty **** good by just practising my style. I get the speed, explosiveness and endurance by doing my forms. Weapon forms and Dummy forms are great conditioning tools. But I think some kind of supplement training can make me even better.
premier
Robin,
It’s quite possible to get stronger without using weights. However is is impossible to get as strong without using weights as using weights. Almost anybody with enough practice will be able to do 15+ pull-ups, one-arm push-ups, one-legged squats, etc etc. A lot of these acrobatic type feats have more to do with balance and control rather than raw strength. The same can not be said about squatting 400 lbs, benching 300 lbs, etc. You need to have a well thought out training plan and dedication in order to make these numbers. (btw, these are nothing special in the grand scheme of things)
Training somebody who can do the acrobatic type feats to lift as much weight as a comparably sized powerlifter would take quite a long time. Training a power lifter to perform these acrobatic types feat would for the most part be a lot easier.
Premier,
Just combine the two. Two week cycles is what the doctor ordered. I used to (and am starting again next week) do two weeks of bodyweight/k’bell and two weeks of PTP with great results. I only stopped because I wanted to bulk up a bit. Now that I gained near 30 lbs, I’m back to my old way. PTP is two weeks of Snatching, DL’ing, Benching, and weighted pulls. Bodyweight is two weeks of one-arm push-ups, one-arm pull-ups, pistols, furey’ish calesthenics, and dumbell snatches.