What needs to change in Wing Chun to address “modern” needs?
I can’t think of any, but I am open to hearing from anyone who sees some such need. Please be specific. 
Surely before the next “innovation” appears, one could compile a listing of changes that we could discuss and agree on as a community concerned about the continuation of this precious art.
Cheers,
Re: What Needs to Change in Wing Chun to Address Modern Needs?
Originally posted by John Weiland
[B]What needs to change in Wing Chun to address “modern” needs?
I can’t think of any, but I am open to hearing from anyone who sees some such need. Please be specific.
Surely before the next “innovation” appears, one could compile a listing of changes that we could discuss and agree on as a community concerned about the continuation of this precious art.
[/B]
Since survival of the art is at stake, one thing that needs to change is the perpetuation of the teaching method. Other MAs have a more standardized methodology for conveying the arts. Within Wing Chun there is often a haphazard approach to teaching and curriculum.
define ‘modern’ needs!!
we all have individual needs, some traditional some ‘modern’.
nothing needs to change, everything will change.
relax, let go, if it is quality it will find its own course.
Hi John,
Good question. I think it depends on what your talking about. Do we need a chi sau machine to sit next to our dummy? Do we need to be concerned with EKG readings? Do we need a Matrix type connection (Matrix II is comming)? Those I can’t answer. I think there is room for them to some degree.
But what I noticed this weekend is the modernization of our perspectives. So many groups try to be traditional and search for the Zen master, miyagi, to learn from. People ignore modern in favor or traditional. I think we need to receive and accept the benefits of modern times as well as the benefits of traditional training.
One point is that of analogies. I have been rereading some critical thinking books from College (I finailly finishied my BS degree), and one chapter is dedicated with metaphorse and analogies as it is a powerful tool in learning and transmition of knowledge. Using modern analogies can help to relate the essense of the training better than old traditional ones. I am sure the Confusion, tao, zen, and other subjects were not as cryptic to those that lived in the day. They can be a little more cryptic since we don’t really understand the times. Think Sheakspere, one probably doesn’t get the slang he uses. Building a Database of hands makes sense an is easy to understand. Trying to run a 32 bit application or a Pentium III chip on an old 286 computer can be related to by many.
Tom
Matrix II? I had enough trouble realting to MatrixI even though it has features from an Indian epic. (the Krishna- Arjuna dialog)-
too high tech for me- a son gave me a digital camera two years ago- I have yet to use it!
But the Yi runs faster than any tech.!
I don’t know about modern needs, but I think a more pragmatic approach that emphasizes on different types of preparations against what can hurt you would be in order. Earlier in one of my posts, I mentioned that WSL thought that it would be better for teachers to teach students how to make less mistakes. Later one of my brother pointed out how WC training today seem to be so devoid of any practical or realistic fighting experience and suggested an alternative way to improve their fighting skills. The response from the forum was an embarassing silence. Perhaps all is just as well. People do what suit them best.
I was just talking to my coaches a few hours ago. They left France many years ago to come to California to learn BJJ with the Machado brothers. And now they are returning to France to recuperate from their injuries. Both of them competed in the Pam Am Jujutsu World Champsionship last Sunday in Santa Barbara, USA. Due to the ongoing injury with the knee, Jean Marc could not go on competing for the final round. Chan Keo, despite severe pains on her back, persevered through and won the vice world championship. It was an impressive achievement as she is 41 years old against a much younger three times world champion Brazilian. They fought resolutely to the end and the young victor won not by submission but by technical points. Every one there even NHB fighters came to cheer for Chan. All fighters love and respect good spirited fighters, for they know victory only comes from being better prepared mentally, physically and skillfully. I see this spirit of fighting WSL waning more and more as the WC era rightfully come to the end of its past golden years.
Regards,
adapt or die
The only evolution I see for wing chun is in adapting it to deal with kinds of fighters our wing chun ancectors never had to face. For example boxers with very light mobile footwork with good slipping. Or grappling specialists like BJJ people. Wing chun might need to use more evasive and light footwork to deal with a boxer. Or not limit wing chun to keeping the legs so narrow when a grapplers shoots, its okay to sprawle to defend it. And the evolution should come in training also. Wing chun needs to be trained just a little bit differently to handle a boxer as compared to a hung gar stylist. Also training in the areas of conditioning need to evolve with the times.
what wing chun needs to survive?
its not the system, rather the students. wing chun needs students willing to put forth the required effort and go the distance to really learn the system. half-assed attempts will result in half-assed sifus for the next generation.
without outstanding wing chunners to point out the faulty money-grabbing sifus that will doubtly be there, wing chun will probably go the way of TKD (no offense to tae kwon do people).
Turn into water, or standing on top of Titanic feeling the wind which make me feel like flying.
Get another bottle of Champain Cheers with the bullet proof monks.
Originally posted by Phenix
Get another bottle of Champain Cheers with the bullet proof monks.
your Matrix needs to be reloaded, something’s wrong with the theta control pid loop.
Originally posted by yylee
[B]
your Matrix needs to be reloaded, something’s wrong with the theta control pid loop. [/B]
I’m a little leary myself of booking a trip on the Titantic, but if it’ll improve my Wing Chun understanding, I’m there.
Originally posted by John Weiland
I’m a little leary myself of booking a trip on the Titantic, but if it’ll improve my Wing Chun understanding, I’m there.
mabye phenix was implying that WC is a sinking ship and we’re all going down on it?
might as well play the violin and enjoy it!
Originally posted by TjD
[B]
mabye phenix was implying that WC is a sinking ship and we’re all going down on it?
might as well play the violin and enjoy it! [/B]
http://www.titanicmovie.com/past/index.html
free titanik screen saver…
Ship sink love is forver…
Originally posted by Phenix
[B]
http://www.titanicmovie.com/past/index.html
free titanik screen saver…
Ship sink love is forver… [/B]
TJD and Phenix, you guys crack me up.
Ship sink love is forver. But wait, a life-boat—she survives! There is yet hope for Yim Wing Chun if not for her loyal admirers.
I posted this in the evoltion thread, but maybe it should go here
At Kamon…
In the organisation I belong to my Sifu talks about “… elevating the art of Wing Chun to its next evolutionary level”.
In part this is, I believe, about examining how we need to deal with attacks today (what type of attack, person, weapon etc will threaten us). Perhaps it’s fair to say the person who attacks you late at night in London or LA etc, will not do so in the same way as someone in Hong Kong in the 1800s.
At Kamon I believe it is also about HOW the art is taught, as much as what is taught. Where we place emphasis (our Feeding Techniques for example). Dealing with random, heavy attacks from a neutral stance is as important to us as Chi Sau. I know someone who trained in Hong Kong last year, and he said they trained Chi Sau almost exclusively.
My Sifu also makes a point of sparring with boxers, Karate and TKD exponents, Thai Boxers etc. One of the reasons I’m so impressed with what he does/teaches, is his willingness to put-it-on-the-line in order to advance what he does/teaches.
In my opinion he and his Wing Chun evolves because of this. The great thing is that he hides nothing… this evolution and experience filters down to those he teaches.
Originally posted by John Weiland
Ship sink love is forver. But wait, a life-boat—she survives! There is yet hope for Yim Wing Chun if not for her loyal admirers.
lets hope she doesn’t drop the jewel of wing chun into the ocean - never to be found!
Originally posted by John Weiland:
What needs to change in Wing Chun to address “modern” needs?
PaulH responded:
I think a more pragmatic approach that emphasizes on different types of preparations against what can hurt you would be in order…WC training today seem to be so devoid of any practical or realistic fighting experience. . . .
TjD wrote:
its not the system, rather the students. wing chun needs students willing to put forth the required effort and go the distance to really learn the system. half-assed attempts will result in half-assed sifus for the next generation.
I agree with both of you. A trainer of NHB fighters once said, “It’s all about motivation; if someone doesn’t have the right motivation, they’ll never get anywhere.” And I think part of what he was getting at is that there is a price to pay if we want to become good fighters regardless of our MA: you must get out there and train hard, get conditioned, fight, etc. I’m not suggesting we abandon WCK’s approach or training methods, only that we must train with the same intensity that any other fighter does if we expect to be able to really develop any fighting skills. We must recognize that belief in a “superior system” is misguided and distracting. We must appreciate that our teacher or system won’t fight for us, and that it all boils down to what we personally can do (and there is only one way to tell). We need to set aside deference to “sifus” and “grandmasters” and “certifications” and lineages and instead be concerned with actual, proven performance (can folks teaching really do what they claim to teach).
Terence
if this message board is a yardstick,then the anxiety many
wck people feel about being grounded/grappled needs
either,to be fully explained within the style,or addressed
by a grappler keen on wck.
pehaps one of us could get a grappler to come onto this
board at some point in the near future to answer questions.?
then we could all meet/log on here on an agreed time and
ask questions?does this sound good?shall we do that?
russ
I don’t think much needs to be changed in wing chun. I think there are some small things here or there to address that maybe used to be addressed or weren’t popular with fighting a few centuries ago? Ground fighting is the obvious one. I am sure wing chun addresses it to some extant or another, but maybe not as intensively as it needs to considering ground fightings popularity.
I don’t think the way people fight has changed much, some of the tools have maybe, but I don’t think it’s all that different when it comes down to it.
Originally posted by TjD
[B]
lets hope she doesn’t drop the jewel of wing chun into the ocean - never to be found! [/B]
The world I know fade away
But You stay! ----- A love before time.
That is the mission:D