We all know that classical arts are worthless ( 
) for the street, but what legit arts that are considered street effective aren’t all that they’re cracked up to be?
My #1 choice, kali/escrima. Great art, great skills but how much practice do I need to learn how to hit someone with a stick? Where do I find a stick in the 1 to 2 seconds I may have before a fight starts? Is practicing for hours on knifefighting the best use of time for a civilian?
jkd
tkd
bjj
Any ‘art’ that pretends to be street effective or trys to sell itself using such marketing hot-words is over-rated.
People fight on the streets not arts.
And I disagree with you concerning fma/kali, sticks are everywhere, easy to find, easy to use. Knife are the most common weapon used to attack people on the street (next to barehands.) Not to mention stick training is to teach you ‘weapons’ and ‘angles’ in general, not sticks. In kali you use a stick, knife, sword, book, magazine, rock the same exact way.
Being street-effective has to do with being aware. Aware of bad places, bad people, and aware of where the closest heaviest object is to hit someone with.
in addition, you also do empty hand work in kali. like yenhoi said, there are angles of attack (12) and stick training is usually the first weapon you learn while learning the 12 angles. you may then move to double stick, knife, stick and knife, etc. and you will do empty hand stuff.
IMO, any art can be street effective. Train properly and hardwire your basics and principles into muscle memory.
up, down, side to side, the 4 angles to make a figure 8, and stab(?) make 9 …
what would the other 3 be?
almost - straight up isn’t one. dunno why though. I never asked. here they are:
High diagonal - left to right
Backhand high diagonal - right to left
Midlevel to right
Midlevel to left
Straight thrust to middle
Straight thrust to left shoulder
Backhand thrust to right shoulder
backhand low to high diagonal - right to left
Low to high diagonal - left to right
Low horizontal (across knee) right to left
Low horizontal (across knee) left to right
Overhand down
These are assuming you are holding the stick in your left hand - it’s opposit for the right.
Complicated question.
For an art to be compleatly ineffective from the start would surgest that something went very wrong during its creation.
What is much more commen is for good arts to turn into useless rubbish over time.
Honestly i have the best laugh at the many what i term ‘tough guy schools’ that i see around. Most teach a mish mash of stuff they have picked up over the years and most do not have any solid qualifications in any single one of the systems they site as inspiration.
You know the stuff i mean, they bandy about cliches like ‘street lethal’ and ‘undefendable’ with an obvious intent to try and sell what amounts to a product (great fighting skill for only 99.95).
These people are IMHO far more of a worry than most traditional schools as they attract a different mindset. They cater directly to the multitudes of people out there who cant be bothered to actualy train but would like to be able to know they can seriously hurt people anyway - just in case of course:rolleyes:
Still if i was to change the question to ‘which schools are commenly not as good as there made out to be?’
Krav Maga - Great art which has been badly stripped down and bastadised.
SCARS - Kill a man in .02 of a second, look out for your CNS man, i will cripple you ‘when’ i get to your CNS, you uneducated git!!!
Boxing - Great in gloves and in the ring, seen enough decent boxers have there shirt pulled over the head and knee smashed repeatably in the face to know it has many limitations as well.
Aikido - Some are good, a lot seem to be really bad, make of that what ever you like.
TKD - Would you like your black belt in six months or three? Our easy payment system lets you decide!
Kung Fu - The only art where if two people slap each other lightly on the arms in a friendly game of tag, two hundred years later its legend has become a lethal battle to the death - with lightsabers!
Tae Bo - Do i even need to explain?
Anything with the word “Combat” strung in front of the original name.
Anything with the word “scientific” in its name or description.
Or anything that touts being “evolved” and somehow “new”.
Anything that preaches street effectivness in 2 easy lessons.
7*: some kali systems teach more then 12 angles. Some only 5 (vertical, horizontal, 2 diagonals, 1 stab). Some arnis dont teach angles, they work only with ‘cut’ and ‘stab’ and teach only sensitity. Some arnis teach one ‘technique’ and thats it.
Not one art ever has, can, or will make anyone street effective, ever. Hardwork counts, nothing else.
TKD… Overrated by whom? I tought it was the most frequently bashed system there is…
wing chun
Any “art” that is “sold” as a “street effective” fighting mechanism is, well… NOT.
The street is no place for “art” 
Seriously though, there are very very few people out there who practice martial arts to improve their chances in a street fight.
Any teacher who would give it up to a person looking to “streetfight” isn’t likely much of a teacher of an “art”.
Go spend some time in a military institution and get some urban combat training that includes the use of small arms tactics. You’ll improve your chances of victory on the street much better.
who the heck deliberately street fights? besides gang members? and look at gang members. the band together for lack of family or self esteem, spend mopst of their time angry or fearful, Just how much “art” can a gang member absorb that isn’t innate?
Kind of a weird question really Rogue.
peace
Colored chalk on pavement washes away with a medium rain, and is scuffed unrecognizable when people walk on it. I don’t know if that makes it overrated for street effectiveness, though, since no-one seems to think they’re creating something permanent.
Krylon seems to hold up pretty well, but it’s mostly painted over by the city or property owners fairly quickly.
Your best bet for street effectiveness is large-scale sculpture or mosaic, with permission and funding from city or property owners, so it wont be summarily removed.
Wait, did you mean arts or martial arts?
I think that large commisioned stainless steel sculptures representing the balance of man and nature are the most street effective CSN.
hahahaha, that was pretty funny when I reflected upon it.
peace
Originally posted by SifuAbel
Anything with the word “Combat” strung in front of the original name.
Is Combat Shuai Chiao included in this one?
The question is overrated not ineffective.
“In kali you use a stick, knife, sword, book, magazine, rock the same exact way.”
Great in theory but not in practice. That’s marketing that instructors toss out along with all fights go to the ground. Each of those weapons have different properties of reach, grip and striking surface. A magazine is not a sword and a brick is not a stick. Try this drill, walk down a street with a friend and have him say now. Find a stick or a rock or whatever in 2 seconds and be ready to use it. Your other choice is to just depend upon empty hand and hope for the best.
"in addition, you also do empty hand work in kali. like yenhoi said, there are angles of attack (12) and stick training is usually the first weapon you learn while learning the 12 angles. you may then move to double stick, knife, stick and knife, etc. and you will do empty hand stuff. "
Like I said kali is a great art just not as practical as some would make it seem. All those things will mean nothing unless you walk around with a length of rataan and/or a spada y dagga at the ready. Personally I carry an umbrella as often as possible and a pocket folder always.
#2 on my list, Muay Thai. Great art for it’s simplicity and training, but without the hardcore training it’s no more effective than any other striking art. Also it doesn’t contain training for use against multiple opponents. This is one art that is rapidly being dumbed down and becoming the core of many cardio kickboxing classes. How many schools still do real shin conditioning?
Originally posted by yenhoi
[B]7*: some kali systems teach more then 12 angles. Some only 5 (vertical, horizontal, 2 diagonals, 1 stab). Some arnis dont teach angles, they work only with ‘cut’ and ‘stab’ and teach only sensitity. Some arnis teach one ‘technique’ and thats it.
Not one art ever has, can, or will make anyone street effective, ever. Hardwork counts, nothing else. [/B]
yeah, some styles - I think serrada is one - I can’t remember if it has more than 12, or if it only has 12 and eliminats three of the angles for thhree thrusts.
Re: The question is overrated not ineffective.
Originally posted by rogue
[B]
…but without the hardcore training it’s no more effective than any other striking art.[/b]
This is ANY art Rogue. And the main reason CMA in general sucks today.
Also it doesn’t contain training for use against multiple opponents.
I think it’s just as good as any other art in this department.
Re: The question is overrated not ineffective.
Originally posted by rogue
[B]
Like I said kali is a great art just not as practical as some would make it seem. All those things will mean nothing unless you walk around with a length of rataan and/or a spada y dagga at the ready. Personally I carry an umbrella as often as possible and a pocket folder always.[/b]
which is why you learn empty hand also. At the time of Kali’s inception, EVERYONE carried a stick or knife - that’s why you learned those skills first and empty hand last. Now, (at least at the places I’ve seen/heard of) you work empty hand along with the other methods - not last.
#2 on my list, Muay Thai. Great art for it’s simplicity and training, but without the hardcore training it’s no more effective than any other striking art. Also it doesn’t contain training for use against multiple opponents. This is one art that is rapidly being dumbed down and becoming the core of many cardio kickboxing classes. How many schools still do real shin conditioning?
Muay Thai is not claiming to be street effective. It will teach you how to fight, but not necessarily self defense. Consequently, It will never have training for multiple attackers. However, it does instill the skills, conditioning and aggressiveness you need to survive in such a situation should it arise. The dumbing down is no different than the mcdojo-izing of TKD and TMA in general, it was bound to happen. If you find a real muay thai school though, then you will shin condition, you will spar hard, etc. I think you will find more hard schools that soft when it comes to MT though. The cardio kickboxing guys usually just say “kickboxing” and don’t finger muay thai. Thank Billy blanks and the guys that invented cardio kickboxing and aeroboxing for that.
But Sevenstar that’s not what the street combat crowd says, the only good kick is a Thai roundhouse. And look at what Yenhoi said(not picking on you, I’ve said the same thing in the past). I believed that too when I was studying kali but reality set in. That two second drill about finding and deploying a stick or stick like object is something that any of my escrimadore friends have yet to pass. There may be others out there that can but not amongst my cirlcle of friends.