Overrated?
I do not know of any,as we know any art may be very good,some people may tell they are the “best” but that is for them.
One very interesting point to notice is that if you search the forums or chat rooms etc.
You may find people who go like “X art is bad”,“X art is good”
“TMA sucks” “MMA rules” or vice versa.
It is very valuable to me,to see that they are either inexperienced practitioners or just plain ignorant practitioners to bash those styles-nearly always with readily biased attitude.
For such a person,it warms to bring a case like “X style fighter lost in sport x competition” then saying it is not effective…
This is less analytical,biased view (A cigarette company cannot tell their supporters that they´ll eventually die if they smoke)
While forgetting about those countless practitioners out there,forgetting about actual self-defense and related incidents.
Now imagine I was a shih tzu quan guy (I will use these made-up example to not upset anyone) I will wind up telling people how my style´s big boys bashed someone in a competition or are just plain so-so good.
Does not it hurt one´s eye(s) that the big boys,masters,sifu´s with good intentions never did care to brag about that.
Did they hand you a list on which style sucks and which rules?..I thought so too.
shih tzu quan? 
Is this a dig at me??
:eek:
rogue:
Try this drill,
Funny, we have that one. We even try it at night sometimes. Pay attention to your surroundings, once you get awareness down, weapons pop out of the woodwork, literally.
You are right and wrong about differnt propertys of weapons. The main characteristic that changes how weapons are used is if they have an edge, and/or if they are flexible.
7* is correct. Some FMA’s were developed because of tribal warfare in the jungle and on the beaches etc. Some because the ‘streets’ arent exactly safe, and everyone carried a weapon. My father uses a cane, he always has a weapon with him.
Depending on how a system is taught, weapon skills translate almost directly into empty hand, its all about the angles and movement (things moving, feet moving, bodys moving…) a good place to look at FMA training methods is tapes etc by Dan Inosanto. Kali trains footwork, angles, and sensitivity. Not techniques and weapons.
Regardless of what we think of FMA’s , street effectiveness has nothing to do with what the fighters call their arts or lack of.
lol.
Do you have a shih tzu Royal?
So if weapon skill nearly directly translates to empty hand skill (hmm) then great empty hand skill nearly directly translates to weapon excellence?
If not,then there is something rotten stinking down there…
I think this question falls into that lovely category of
“THE ARTIST MAKES THE DECISION IF HIS SYSTEM/ART IS EFFECTIVE OR NOT BY HOW HE EMPLOYS IT”
Rogue,
You might as well ask
“Which race/ethnicity do you think sucks at fighting the most” because that is basically what you have implied.
I have seen navy seals get their ass handed to them by muy thai fighters and I have seen CMAists completely dominate MMA fighters.
Good question, maybe a different angle would have been better addressed.
Like “From you experience with confrontations, which art/form of combat have you seen that appears to be way overrated”
Not a blast, just my perception.
AOF
If you define “overrated street effective art” by
times skillfully used / # of times used
then the most overrated arts are boxing and wrestling.
What was your fastest time? The best I did was around 5 seconds and that was in a woods. Too bad I picked up a rotten branch that fell apart when I brought it up. Using a sunnyday scenerio where everything goes your way (your awareness is high, recovery from the surprise is quick, etc…) the time it takes to find, move to, bend down, grab the weapon, stand up (why stand, hit the guy in the legs) and get ready to fight, it’s still going to be tight, not to mention you’ve moved your eyes off of your attacker. If you can’t find a weapon you could still use your kali empty hand techniques, but now you’ve wasted what a second, maybe two looking for a weapon? And once again you’ve probably taken your eyes off of your opponent while doing this. I still dabble in stick fighting when time allows(which these days means it’s rare) but I’ve learned it takes much more than sinawalli to use it on the street.
The thing I learned from the drill is that when seconds count you can only go with what is already in your hands.
AOF, it’s more of a marketing question.
Tae bo
or maybe tai chi or xing-yi or pakua(just because they take so lng to become proficient at.)
AOF
Hey guys, sorry to but in…
FC: as u know in WC it kinda works in the opposite way to how general FMA and aikido seems ot be taught (ime anyway). We learn the baat jam do (8 slash knives) generally after we do the empty hand forms. But many of the principles and even techniques are the same, so its an extension of the empty hand.
In the aikido i trained and FMA i have seen weapons are generally trained 1st or equally with empty hand.
Guess it just depends, as both help increase accuracy, power, footwork etc. and compliment each other.
to answer the question:
i’ve trained with a few people who do these ‘real self defence’ styles/hybrids and really im pretty unimpressed. i pretty much found that if i stick to my own skill and do things as i know how i generally fare pretty well unless i screw up (**** i just stated the obvious). i found that some people who train too many different principles and no clear root are easier to deal with. Again to me thats different from MMA so no beef with those guys
To me ‘real self defence’ includes things mentioned before such as awareness training, pre/during/post fight psychology, use of street weapons, retention, legal ramifications and all that kinda stuff. Martial arts can sure develop awareness and the ability to adapt, but i dont count it as real self defence. Actually im not particularly interested in real self defence so thats why i train CMA there is some crossover, but its clear.
hmmm… i really didnt end up saying naything worthwhile oh well…
dawood
Former castleva,
No, I practice a Chinese art called “Tai” Tzu Quan though
Umm…you guys aren’t really considering Tae Bo a martial art are you? Seriously, you’re kidding right? I can be kind of slow sometimes and tongue in cheek references go over my head on the internet because I can’t see you guys’ faces. Tae Bo is still considered to be aerobic kickboxing, right? Come on guys, you’re scaring me. Throw me a frickin’ bone, for chrissake!
Nope, Tae Bo is now an official martial art. I remeber someone talking about a Tae Bo self defence video teaching how to use it in a self defense situation.
Of course, they could have been BS’n (I hope) 
Originally posted by rogue
But Sevenstar that’s not what the street combat crowd says, the only good kick is a Thai roundhouse.
Exactly. now we’re getting somewhere. we’ve transcended style an gone into technique. And there is some truth to that - low powerful kicks are street effective. other kicks fall into that category:
seapu(sp?) a low line front kick used in silat
stomp kicks
MT style roundhouse kicks.
This goes back to what I originally said - train your basics, ecause every art has techs that are street effective. To be street effective, you don’t need a certain style, but there are certain techniques that seem to work better, and I’d venture to say that most styles have variations of those techniques.
“This goes back to what I originally said - train your basics, ecause every art has techs that are street effective. To be street effective, you don’t need a certain style, but there are certain techniques that seem to work better, and I’d venture to say that most styles have variations of those techniques.”
Oh Sevenstar my poor misguided friend, what ever are we to do with you. Only certain arts have effective techniques and these are only known to those who have studied them less than 2 years or better yet read about them in Black Belt magazine.
I was actually told by someone who neither practices any karate or any form of TKD that those arts don’t have knees, elbows, headbutts, use of the shin as a blocking/striking surface and many other things.
I have met a few really good TKD guys. I havent been able to find a good TKD school ever. If you train correctly you will be badass.
:eek:
:eek:
rogue:
Mine was like 3 seconds. I used the attackers belt. Another time I used a shoe. I dont know if I would really do that in a real life or death street encounter, because Ive never had one (“not really”). My reaction would probably be empty handed, because thats what I spend the most time training. Hopefully at this point in the scenario I have already tried to run, etc.
Good solutions Yenhoi, no one ever lists running away and it’s the smartest thing to do.
actually rouge
Good solutions Yenhoi, no one ever lists running away and it’s the smartest thing to do.
there was a thread about this in street/reality.
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=17781
lots and lots..
Most M.A.s as taught today claim to have effective self-defense techniques. The truth is that many don’t have a clue. How could they? With the legal environ the way it is, in the U.S. especially, it’s so hard to evaluate what is legit and what isn’t. In an uncontrolled environment, like the street, there are so many variables that don’t allow for effective rendering of things learned in a dojo or MAs school. If you’ve observed or been involved with a few scraps in your adult years then you may be able to discern what is effective or not.
The thing is that every confrontation is case dependent. Meaning that it rarely happens the same way twice. You have to have some faith and analytical ability to judge whether or not what’s being pitched to you as self-defense, is really just a MAs version of insurance. The difference being you can rest assured that if you get into an accident and you have reliable car insurance that the company will foot the bill for the damages. With MAs training you have to HOPE and believe that the self-defense “insurance” you have will cover your arse when the isht hits the fan!
Subjectivity is a Universal concept. Hope springs eternal!