Mighty B: yup, youve already turned in to a troll mate. :rolleyes:
dawood
Where’s WaterDragon? 
C’mon, guys - you’ve been around long enough. Maybe we just haven’t had one of these in a while? If you WANTED to write a troll post, wouldn’t it be exactly like this one?
LOL at the KF crowd dissin him at the lion dance - good one.
Sniff, sniff…
I’ve been waiting for a good flaming troll thread. Even posted flaming inflamatory remarks about Bruce Lee and nothing. Dam_n it! I’m bored. I had one meeting today and nada for the rest of the day!
Dezhen, do I make you question your unrealistic values? Does that make me a troll. Is it because I would rather ski than play a video game about skiing? Experience is the key… experience dispells myth.
Fighters fight, end of story. CMA could be great. It’s not. It could be… San Shou and MMA will deliver us from apathy.
hey mate i was just playin! but u have to admit –>
San Shou and MMA will deliver us from apathy.
DOES sound like a preacher
My values are not unrealistic… i regularly train with people who do boxing, muay thai, kicboxing, shorinji kempo, aikido (GOOD aikido) and full contact karate… were all learning how to apply our skills against other systems, no biggie 
every day i train for around 4 hours, doing stretching, hard qigong (body conditioning) and my wing chun foundation skills (Siu Lim Tao) for around an hour (or more if i can). right now i cant train so often with partners, usually only once or twice a week on top of what i do above. Need chi sau partners though 
So, is my training unrealistic? Its getting me where i want to go, and i seem to be doing just fine with those i train against. Its hard to combine serious MA training with university studies full time and 2 jobs, but im doing my best.
Am i worried baout competing ‘in the ring’? nope. Am i worried about ‘self defence’? Nope. Am i worried about learning and understaning my skills principles and applying them against other practitioners and in my daily life? YUP.
no big deal…
dawood
hey didnt realise u used my words in your sig… 1st time thats happened… it took over 2500 posts too
dawood
Messin with ya
Dezhen, it sounds like you got a good head on your shoulders and are training pretty realistically.
I just like to toss people around a little on the boards. I do believe in alot of what I write though. I see the value in cross training and competition when a person becomes ready. What I don’t like are these cardboard cut out responses people post about other styles and fighting. It seems like trolling, but exposure, questioning, and experience are fundamental to growth as a martial artist. I think that my Sifu is the greatest, but that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with him all the time. I also really like 7* Praying Mantis (10yrs now) but I in no way think that it’s the end all and beat all of martial combat. What I’m saying is that a person has to experience things and come up with their own decisions about combat and life. And, in the end, make it as fun, open, and realistic as possible. You can’t do that if you immediately judge everything as inferior to what you’re learning or dismiss something with stereotypes.
no problems man, i agree… i just go about it differently thats all…
i trained various martial arts all at various times: (good) karate for 13 years, boxing for 5, muay thai for a few, as well as shorinji kempo and aikido before finding my Sifu, so ive competed and done full contact (knockdown) etc. plenty of times.
for sure in class we usually do chi sau or application drills… thats where i am shown things and try to understand them. then i can apply them however i like outside, no big deal.
again, i dont train to compete - just for my own interest and health, so im not too bothered about all this ring stuff. i get enough sparring with friends and my skill is developing so no problem.
dawood
Oh yeah?
Well the kali guy would fight the kung fu dude and the boxer at the same time, use his unbeatable triangle and 1 step footwork to just step in and break the kung-fu guy’s hands elbows knees and ankles, and in the same motion to just throw knives at the boxer and just kill him.
Lol.
Quote dezhen:
it all comes down to experience in applying your skill in a chaotic situation and being able to adapt to what happens.
–
No way man, it hase to do with just using your superior kung-fu to just crush other styles.
i was being subtle 
dawood
Too many traditional schools don’t teach fighting. Just a sad fact of life. Follow this board, read the magazines, talk to the masters-- traditionals don’t emphasize fighting and they create bizarre rationalizations as to why it’s wrong to train like a fighter. Fighting skill is treated as a consequence of MA training, not the emphasis. IMHO it’s the wrong attitude to have.
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Reguardles of what they “Call themselves” if they are not fight oriented, they are NOT Traditional!!! They are new age modern and incomplete.
“but if you look at the history, all the great masters were hard core fighters”. Re-he-ee-eally, how do you know? Did somebody tell you that? Did that somebody witness that fight? Who were the opponent’s? Were they as skilled as the supposable master? Was it an ambush or did the other person have time to prepare to fight? Is it all hearsay and conjecture? Where’s the Beef?
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All the legands, all the books everything I have ever seen sugjest the arts were born out of brutal combat. Take my style, Tai Tzu Chang Chaun for instance. The founder was abrutal war loard who conquered FIVE neigboring states, thus uniting them into his empire. Don’t tell me a sucsesssful warlord like that couldn’t fight. It’s not reasonable to bevieve he was just a wuss interested in “Enlightenment”.
If it was so hard core in the past why isn’t it representated properly now (plenty of opportunity for representation-- MMA, San Shou, Submission Wrestling)?
Reply]
I’m not sure. I think part of it has to do with the fact that fighting was considered an under society, criminal sort of thing, and all the health and fitness stuff was just a craze to market to the upper class and thier $$$. it was so succsessful, that it sort of buried the real Traditional arts like a title wave crashing onto the beach.
In the USA, we like fighting, we respect fighters, so it prospered more, where as in China, it died, or went under ground. I think it is slowly comming back as they become more competitive with us, but it’s going to take time.
A result of peace.
The decline of traditional martial arts school’s value as a fighting form is a recent thing due to peace. Without competition or life and death struggles, the arts decline into acts of showmanship and feats of strength. This is in an effort to attract students and their money. When you start talking about a style’s start, you are talking about different times and I would say that any art at those times and under those circumstances is lightyears beyond anything that we’ve come to know and is represented by the modern art in name only.
MightyB
Yeah, I have to aggree there. That is why I am always looking for the ORIGINAL forms. At least they contain the raw movement for a truly effective combat system. It’s kind of like a “Compressed .Zip file”. If you can figr out how to extract it, you can use it.
In the absence of war, I think we need to look to modern competiotns, like Kuo Shou or anything that lets you use a large amount of your arsenal, with minimal protective gear and few rules.
Royal dragon: I agree with your statement on forms, Have you ever looked at Saam chin?
We train sparring and techniques on a resisting opponent EVERY night that we do a class. Several people in the school are also bouncers, security, police officers, formers grapplers, etc. Yet we have no more problems using our styles techniques and applying the movements under pressure than a boxer or grappler. IMHO, the key is being in good condition, regular practice, PATIENCE, and the like. What I dont understand is why any kung fu schools DONT have you work with a resisting opponent. The way I learned it, the whole reason that kung fu is not taught with single clear definitions of applications, is because when you start working with other people, you start to just see them for yourself as you advance, and depending on your body type, power generation, stance, etc, these applications could vary completely even though they may be working off of the same basic movement…“tiger coming down the mountain” for example, can be a couple strikes, a throw, and elbow technique followed by a throw, the beginning of a stand up armbar or grapple, etc… Not sure why some schools dont spar, but if you do, and you stick to your kung fu, it works just fine, regardless of format…
when you start working with other people, you start to just see them for yourself as you advance, and depending on your body type, power generation, stance, etc, these applications could vary completely even though they may be working off of the same basic movement…
agree totally! my wing chun is not my sihings wing chun which is not sifus wing chun - but its still wing chun skill
dawood
I hate to say this because it is not really ‘Politically Correct’, but with fighting, and especially kung fu, the rule “there are no bad teachers, only bad students” is more often true than not. If you dont know how to fight, you should jump into a ring, or play with someone that will school you repeatedly until you start to figure out how a fight works in the first place. Then start trying to use your kung fu, and if you think it sucks, dont learn it, learn something you like. Also, most people on here talk of the major weakness of the “internal styles” and how they dont spar, etc. Well, the natural progression for many talented “internalist” fighters, was to learn how to fight, kung fu or otherwise, and THEN LEARN the internal arts, after they already knew how fighting worked. This could be compared to something like the following:
A person that has never used a sword is a threat with a very sharp blade. A person that has trained to use weapons..even dummy weapons for 10 years that is given a sharp blade is someone you just dont ‘F’ with. Same idea…if you already know how to punch, take a hit, are not clumsy anymore, know your right from left, how to throw and use different ranges, then an internal art is just like forging yourself into a much nastier self. But taking high level skills without developing your base is like building a skyscraper on sawdust. Its just not going to stand up in the wind, let alone a storm.