Hmmmm. Is there anyone that Royce couldn’t choke?
I’ve an idea for a thread.
Royce can’t choke a Lei Tai platform; his arms are not that long…Rickson, maybe
Six months is nothing. I’ve heard people say that you should be able to defend yourself using kung fu after only six months of training. I don’t think that’s realistic. It takes longer than that to be able to move your body in the kung fu way and generate power. Additionally, without taking the proper steps to be able to use techniques against a resisting moving opponent, it would be impossible to deal with a classmate in a cooperative school setting, much less a boxer, fighting under boxing rules. Your kung fu arsenal has to be limited after six months and to expect to do well after such a short time…
That being said Kung Fu isn’t for everyone. It takes time and a lotta hard work to be proficient. Boxing may be a better fit for the short term. But, who would you rather fight a boxer or a kung fu practitioner (A real kung fu Practitioner) who has been training for thirty years? Let’s make them 50 years old. This is easy because that’s about the age of my Sifu. I don’t know too many 50 year old boxers. But I know my answer. Your answer might make it easier to decide what art is for you. Besides there’s no reason you can’t return to kung fu later.
But I’d go to another school, your so-called friends sound like a buncha suckers.
my sifu still boxes at 50. just with a couple students but its full contact.
Royce couldn’t choke Helio!
I haven’t read every post…
So somebody else could have said it.
But, I don’t think this guy is a troll. Also, I don’t think that you guys have ever seen or experienced real boxing. It’s an eye opener-- cuts 'em and dots 'em too. 
This guy’s story is actually pretty real. If you step into a ring with a boxer and try to use traditional kung fu, chances are that you’ll get killed. I’ve just started getting into boxing and real boxing training techniques-- thanks to Ringside.
Eye opener. Boxing is definitely for real. San Shou, MMA, Thai, and BJJ guys would do well against boxers, but traditionalists will get killed for a bunch of reasons: Too defensive and lack offensive combinations, inadequate jab and inadequate and unrealistic training for defense against real boxing technique, no slipping bobbing or weaving, no experience against real opponents, taught unproven techniques that won’t really work, and not in proper condition to fight.
Dam_n it! I’m becomming a troll… must fight the dark side…
Royce couldn’t choke Helio!
…but he could choke on Helium…
I thought the new one was…
Bet you wouldn’t say that in front of Royce!
That one is for special occasions
Royce couldn’t choke Helio!
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I bet you he could!!!
This guy’s story is actually pretty real. If you step into a ring with a boxer and try to use traditional kung fu, chances are that you’ll get killed. I’ve just started getting into boxing and real boxing training techniques-- thanks to Ringside.
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Sorry, no way. Boxers are VERY vulnerable to pretty much most of Kung Fu’s (Any style) arsenal. All you have to do is Kick the living daylights out of them untill it’s safe to get close and trip, uproot, or throw them on thier heads.
A boxer does not train to defend against kicks, sweeps locks or throws. Why wold they know what do do if presented with them in a fight? Try this, when they are in thier boxer’s guard hold the ball, and just step up to thier arms so your left is pressing against thiers at the elbow, or just slightly above. That neutralises thier ability to jab as you have
- covered the jabbing hand
- you are circled to the outside of their center, so they can’t fire it anyway.
Now, just Bagua around and wallop 'em in the back of the head and kick thier leg out form under them. Let 'em “try” and step out of it, they will just walk into your tripping foot and help you drop them faster.
The key is to contact and stick to thier hands. Once you have contact, you cna feel them before they do and it takes all the speed out of thier jabs, totally neutralising it.
Either that, or you could use the old “Bar room” trick and pull their shirts over thier heads. :eek: 
pppppffffff of course i would say that in front of him…the guy doesn’t choke you unless there is at least 1M dollars at stake…and since there’s no way I can gather all that money, he won’t do any harm to me…shhheeeeeeesss
BTW, he does sound a little trollesque though…or at least he trains gong fu without liking it LOL
RD
I disagree with pretty much everything that you stated, except for the bagua since I know next to nuthin’ about bagua.
You can’t stick to them (complex trapping is martial fantasy anyway) and a good boxer’s footwork is just as good or better than any kung fuers.
A good boxer’s hands aren’t just fast, they’re hellafast. If you do open up the option of kicking, it’s true that they don’t train to defend against leg kicks, but they’ll be able to block pretty much every kick you aim above their waste. If it’s below the belt, if they’re half intelligent, they’ll maneuver out of anything that carries too much pepper.
Throwing is going to give them some problems if they are fighting somebody who can actually do combat throws. Problem is that those people are few and far between and any boxer will quickly and instinctively learn to sprawl or drop their weight to prevent being thrown. Try san shou and you’ll see that it’s tuff to throw somebody who doesn’t want to be thrown. Watch NHB and you’ll see that the most common throw is the form tackle aka double leg take down and that’s considered bad form in traditional CMA.
Besides, we’re talking about traditional CMA trying to fight a fighter. The fighter will win. The traditional guy just doesn’t have enough experience to even hope to compete with him.
LOL!!! You act like a traditional Kung Fu guy isn’t a fighter or something. I got news for you, traditional MEANS fighting. I know there ar lots of modern newagey kung fu schools “Claiming” to be traditional, but if you look at the history, all the great masters were hard core fighters. if you not doing that, your not traditional.
As for what I said, you are on thier outside driving in against thier elbow. They can’t hit you because they have to go through your arms to do it. You have them tangeled up with your arms in contact and controlling thiers. There is no way they can even pull back and disengage because you have thier guard pushed in tight against thier body, which turns them a bit thus prevening the other hand from making an effective attack. That, and thier vitals exposed, especially the back of the neck and head. They would be very vulnerable to Tai tzu’s “cutting slice”, as it enters from behind them in this situation. Unless they have eyes in the back of thier head, noway they could see it comming, let alone do anything from that position to stop it.
Bagua’s footwork will easily enter you into the position needed, the rest is found in just about any Chinese art. It is a simple technique, and very effecitve because of that simpicity.
If it looks like it is going to fail, then you just use some of those deep stances, and duck under thier Guard, step through and toss’em. Diagonal cut from Shui Chiao is low enough to do it, and you’d already be angled to go in for it. It would be hard not to throw them if something went wrong.
The only way a boxer can dominate a traditionally trained Kung Fu fighter would be if the rules were restricted only to Boxing rules.
MightyB is correct re: boxing’s effectiveness.
You can’t stick to them (complex trapping is martial fantasy anyway)
Boxers have a version of sticking, don’t they? A clinch or something?? Anyways, agreed re: trapping- I would only go as ‘complex’ as elbow/shoulder lock/throws in this situation, no wristlocks, ever- they are the stooopidest things!
Also, it looks like some underestimate a boxer’s ability to take truly punishing damage- they do that every day of their training.
Shouldn’t see this screed as denying TCMAs effectiveness in some situations. I don’t deny it can be. I just have a very healthy respect for the art of boxing. It, like TCMAs has also evolved and not all of that is sport-oriented [you just don’t see the non-sport stuff].
double leg take down and that’s considered bad form in traditional CMA.
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Really?? Who says?? I’ve seen similar at Shui Chiao seminar. it has all the elements of good Kung Fu, even the deep stances.
Also, it looks like some underestimate a boxer’s ability to take truly punishing damage- they do that every day of their training.
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Yeah, Boxers do develop quite a bit of the “Iron Body”, very similar to the Chinese arts, only they don’t have single man exercises to develop it. They get it from taking hits from thier training partners.:eek:
Well…
Its quite blank: underestimating anyone, boxer or not, is just plain dangerous…
however, it is my personal experience that boxers have a very hard time dealing with well done sticking hands. However it is also my experience that you don’t have ANY room for mistake when playing the sticky hands game with a boxer, because by instinct as soon as you let go the fist is shooting.
double leg take-down? since when is it considered bad form?? It is one of the oldest wrestling techs ever documented, there are, if I remember well, chinese drawings and greek statues depicting it…
RD: i would rather hit myself, as partners dont wanna train with me much after i tell them to keep hitting me :(:eek:
As for boxing, yup i have a great respect for it. i trained boxing for over 5 years before meeting my sifu.
it all comes down to experience in applying your skill in a chaotic situation and being able to adapt to what happens.
for example: i train with mates who do boxing, kickboxing and muay thai. i do wing chun. yet i can apply the little skill i have effectively against them, though i sometimes have trouble with their hooks as im not used to them yet.
Also i have done aikido for around 5 years, and can apply some of that skill also - irimi nage and tenchin nage for example, as well as variations from them. i guess some is similar to what i imagine the san shou guys do against round and straight kicks.
As for trapping - this always confuses me!
in wing chun we go for your centre… if theres something in the way we a) go around it or b) move it, why chase hands - id rather chase the head!
the more you practise your skill with a partner the more you learn how to apply it.
dawood
Its all a bit theoretical to claim one is better than another anyway, surely it depends on the skill of the Boxer and the skill of the kung fu guy, you can’t say a boxer will definately kick a kung fu guys ass of vice versa.
As for the sticking hands if done properly it will give a boxer some trouble in landing his blows.
Have to disagree again
LOL!!! You act like a traditional Kung Fu guy isn’t a fighter or something. I got news for you, traditional MEANS fighting. I know there ar lots of modern newagey kung fu schools “Claiming” to be traditional, but if you look at the history, all the great masters were hard core fighters. if you not doing that, your not traditional.
Too many traditional schools don’t teach fighting. Just a sad fact of life. Follow this board, read the magazines, talk to the masters-- traditionals don’t emphasize fighting and they create bizarre rationalizations as to why it’s wrong to train like a fighter. Fighting skill is treated as a consequence of MA training, not the emphasis. IMHO it’s the wrong attitude to have.
“but if you look at the history, all the great masters were hard core fighters”. Re-he-ee-eally, how do you know? Did somebody tell you that? Did that somebody witness that fight? Who were the opponent’s? Were they as skilled as the supposable master? Was it an ambush or did the other person have time to prepare to fight? Is it all hearsay and conjecture? Where’s the Beef? If it was so hard core in the past why isn’t it representated properly now (plenty of opportunity for representation-- MMA, San Shou, Submission Wrestling)?