Useless moves or techniques or stances, please.

Originally posted by No_Know
[B]
I’m hoping my legs are good enough to withstand several, people’s level of ability at sweeping them. If I “unloaded” My “front” leg while in a low horse-riding stance, I think that I would find it most valueable to use the “front” leg in a sidekick, Tiger-tail kick, back kick or heel to the chin (or lower).

If you are in a low horse stance, why hook kick to the chin? A hook kick of any height is not feasible from a low horse, IMO.

Do all Mauy Thai practitioners get the shin development to kick through a bananatree (Or whatever plant that was in Kickboxer (Jean-Claude VanDamme~)?

No.

know-no

“Since the attitudes of the two styles is different–attacking/no damage, least damage,”

Please dont generalize, not all taijiquan practitioners are minimal/no harm type people. See hippy thread…

Thanks
Gary:D

Sevenstar…no…u can get the same type of shin slower but safer by kicking a leather bag.

yeah, no doubt, but not everyone’s shin will be as hard as the movie made us perceive van damme and tong po’s were. The conditioning is unavoidable in MT, but not eveyone’s legs will be conditioned to the same degree. Remember - Van Damme actually broke the tree… since that was what No_Know used as an example, I replied the way I did - Not everyone will be able to kick through a bananna tree

I thought a palm strike to the top of the head was one of the few moves forbidden in Kuo Shu tournements. When the head gets hit, the brain bounces off the opposite side of the skull. A concussion of the brain stem would be really bad. That’s where basic functions like respiration are controlled.

I’ve learned lots of moves that seemed useless. Some of them are for conditioning, some of them are for learning to move different ways, or, “just in case you ever end up in this position,” and some have applications that aren’t obvious, like apparent strikes that are really throws or chin-na.

If you look for stuff like this, you can keep learning new things from your old forms.

hmm this Is an Exelent Thread. Perhaps I should abandon Training with Use Low Kicks to the Leg since it Sounds like they Have no effect On People who train properly.

“my kick did NOTHING to his stance,and that was when i was training Muay Thai”

if It Happens Like this I guess Low Kicks are virtually Useless (At Least Thai Style) - Why are they So Praised by the So-Called MMAS I wonder? (Hehe I guess this Isnt the First time they Got something Wrong) :wink:

Useless Move In My Opinion

I’ve taken Wah Lum KF for awhile and the 2 useless moves that come to mind are

  1. The Iron bridge (bent over backwards)- Yeah ok I know it’s primarily for flexibility, but I’ve heard this exercise in reference to avoiding a kick. I thought the point was NO wasted movement. To bend over backwards is just silly from every practical standpoint.

  2. The broadsword flower - wasted movement and takes your weapon down from the en guard position. You don’t see people who fence do a whole lotta flowering - hell even the name itself implies what it is, looks pretty neat and that’s about it. Once again I can see the benefits of this movement when it is used as an exercise.

So how bout it anyone pull off any of these in an actual altercation?

Originally posted by Unstoppable
[B]hmm this Is an Exelent Thread. Perhaps I should abandon Training with Use Low Kicks to the Leg since it Sounds like they Have no effect On People who train properly.

“my kick did NOTHING to his stance,and that was when i was training Muay Thai”

if It Happens Like this I guess Low Kicks are virtually Useless (At Least Thai Style) - Why are they So Praised by the So-Called MMAS I wonder? (Hehe I guess this Isnt the First time they Got something Wrong) :wink: [/B]

The best way to determine that is to feel it. Trust me, they didn’t get anything wrong. If the kick was useless, thai boxers would have abandoned it a LONG time ago as it would have served them no purpose in battle or in the ring.

Also, don’t think that because you train low kicks that you are training thai kicks…

Re: Useless Move In My Opinion

Originally posted by snappingknee
[B]

  1. The broadsword flower - wasted movement and takes your weapon down from the en guard position. You don’t see people who fence do a whole lotta flowering - hell even the name itself implies what it is, looks pretty neat and that’s about it. Once again I can see the benefits of this movement when it is used as an exercise.

So how bout it anyone pull off any of these in an actual altercation? [/B]

My understanding of the flower is that it it is a series of rapid blocks followed by a strike. also it serves to confuse an opponent.

Unstoppable: All i said was that my kick didn’t work in that situation. Yes i was training MT and had done for a year or so. That doesn’t mean the technique is wrong, just that i couldn’t get it to work because my friend sunk in to his horse stance…

So many generalizations here it’s shocking :stuck_out_tongue:

david

ANY move can be adapted to kung fu usage if one thinks long and hard about it enough.

Actually, the broadsword flower is the IDEAL way of training combat application of this weighted curved weapon. I’m assuming that the broadsword flower is a figure 8 spinning of the broadsword in front of you.

The broadsword is a curved heavy weapon that is not easily jerked around or sent in different directions. If one is to utilize it, he needs either momentum to power the strikes or the reverse hand to brace the blade in a nonswinging manner.

The figure 8, when separated out into its more basic components, features cuts to all 4 corners. Actually, the application can be threaded out to an infinite number of possible strikes and counterstrikes. The basic jing of the broadsword flower teaches a guy how to cut in all directions by using the natural weight of the broadsword in a wrist-controlling efficient manner.

Criminals armed with knives often work in prison on how to cut a guy who has grabbed his knife-wielding hand. By using that exact same broadsword flower, they slice open the grabbing forearm of the opponent.

Generalizations can help one understand the specifics, theoretically. Yet Knowing it to be a generalization it seems that many hold it to be absolutely true in All cases. By the nature of a generalization one perhaps should be open for the occasional variations to the standard generalizations on perhaps almost any topic.

Unstopable,
The low kick no good? It can jam and shock. It can cripple (at least long enough to end the fight). It as many things if not everything has it’s uses. Not affecting the person with Your kick, dezhen2001 :-), merely says keep working on it or that the kickee had good legs or knew how to use the stance or knew how to use breathing…don’t give up. One example should seldom be the generalization. More at the variation to the stereotype that if looked at can broaden one’s understanding of the True nature of a thing. You low-down Kicker you…Keep at it. It has significant value.

The Iron bridge: when you are less than expert at it it seems good on slow less than best flexible kickers to the upper torso or head. This looks like a set-up technique. Avoiding only to spring load aleg for a risng groin or chin shot. In Sme movies from the seventies or eighties with the name Shao-lin in them there were shots of supposed monk types doing weapons drills and handset forms and exercises. One exercise had one bendover backwardsthen roll on hands (sometimes head if not only head) and feet to form the reverse arch bent forewardthen roll in the same direction into a backbend and this continued. This seems an evasion technique and exercise to strengthen and increase or maintain flexibility.

Snapping Knee,
This broadsword flower seem to perhaps be a series of parries(deflections) Some attacks stab continuously. Backing youuntil you don’t parry or trip. Then you get stabbed spear technique seems notorious for repeated thrustings. My mention has the technique as blocking/deflecting going backwards. HuangKaiVun’s post seemed to talk about the same thought on;ly going forwards. Forwards it is a relentless attack. If it is how I am thinking it to be.

SevenStar,
""If they have patience and are willing to train hard for several years, kung fu will take them well beyond those other styles. "

How’s that for a generalization. there are too many factors that come into play for that to be guaranteed."

How about, Kung-Fu Can take them well beyond those other styles? Under a concept that Kung-Fu encompasses a variety of techniques that address broad and specific situations, where the others have locked (limited technique quantity (all of which have variations…~From one the ten-thousand things~) I’ve been lead to understand that there are styles that have weaklnesses. If they can’t draw upon a well of resources such as Kung-Fu has then ginen the absolute Kung-Fu welltrained and understood can go well beyond the others. While by what I’ve put here, there might not be any thing I wouldn’t consider Kung-Fu (something done well), not everything is Kung-Fu~ (fighting styles~).

Hook kick: I No_Know that we are on the same page. You say hook and I wonder. I say heel to the chin or lower-a straight line shot from floor to contact area. My thouight was to mostly use hands to fight (knee or leg shift (feet in place) to hit or deflect near-by legs). I wouldn’t Know from practical~ I merely threw-in a possibility of could do. Although, I would like to use it. I presume that your thighs tend to be tight and sweeping high kicks can’t be done by you without your knee bent because your legs have straight-out inflexibility some. Not as offensive intended as it might have come-off.

Number of techniques: You might not use very many. But the one you learn that don’t get tried serve to develop you to better do the ones you diduse. Also It broadens your conceptualizaion on how you Could be attacked. Some of these you don’t use might have come frome exhaustive reasearch of surviving. Today we use a limited variety of attacks but if We trained for centuries We might come-up with Greater variety than we currently use. Someone already did that centuries ago~. I prefer to keep it incase I don’t Know all there is to fighting and getting attacked and capabilities of movement and defending strategies… If I get more skilled I might understand what was useless to my think because I didn’t Know any better. So (needle -and-thread), I learn the so-called useless because I No_Know.
It seems that if one looks with intention, well into perhaps almost anything, one might find what one needs (even if that is to look somewhere else).

PLCrane,
That’s a nice concept. I hope it helps others here and elsewhere.

gazza99,
I think I missed your point of referring me to that thread, If it was the hippie rant. One person would only take so much before person wouldgo violent. But That was not enough to really speak to your mention of T’ai Chi Ch’uan people not all Minimum damage-no damage people. Sometimes minimum damage is killing. There are lesser degrees too. But if you are one of these non minimal/no-damage types, unless you and your type, want and try to hurt people without provocation. Or hurt them for your pleasure, then I am correct and T’ai Chi Ch’uaners while they can be agressive use minimal force to no force. If you are Pa Kua or Hsing-I, you could pervert the T’ai Chi Ch’uan techniques to suit your upsetness or disturbedness. And thinking of it, yes someone could be good at T’ai Chi Ch’uan and have a really bad attitude. Hopefully, they would practice more and T’ai Chi Ch’uan would overcome their perverted heart and soothe their soul~ Hopefully.

Originally posted by Unstoppable
i Would not want To fight from Low Horse Stance. mayeb its Goiod for training but to a fight You could get some Guy kick you in the leg if Hes at the side and it Take too long to shift Weiught and counter or if in the Middle WHOAH big Kick to thwe 'Nads and you would Be Flattened Man!!! What do You think?

depends how deep and mobile your center of gravity is!.

Originally posted by Unstoppable
i Would not want To fight from Low Horse Stance. mayeb its Goiod for training but to a fight You could get some Guy kick you in the leg if Hes at the side and it Take too long to shift Weiught and counter or if in the Middle WHOAH big Kick to thwe 'Nads and you would Be Flattened Man!!! What do You think?

depends how deep and mobile your center of gravity is!.

A comment so good, that it had to be posted twice. :slight_smile:

If one gets tackled from the front by a significantly bigger opponent and one wishes to stay on his feet, a low horse stance is the only way to do that.

If one gets tackled from the front by a significantly bigger opponent and one wishes to stay on his feet, a low horse stance is the only way to do that.

Not necessarily true. Yes, this is a good technique and may work for someone who has practiced a deep, strong horse stance for quite some time. However, not all fighters could hold up a bigger opponent. I prefer to use your opponent’s energy against him.

Useless techniques?
I know I’ve wondered about some stuff I have learned until I was shown it’s application. Ask!

Nice thread, people!

If you get “tackled” (no decent grappler simply tackles) from the front by anybody with an ounce of grappling ability and attempt to use a low horse stance as your counter to stay on your feet, you and the ground are going to be fast friends.

Now, is somebody tries to hip throw you, sinking your weight isn’t too shabby an idea.

If you do Horse-riding stance in that tackle situation, perhaps you might try using that base to rotate the attack to either side.

It’s like stuff gets pulled in then thrown out by the Tazmanian Devil of Looney Toons™. Only shorter rotation. Only the deflection part is the same…It’s like falling off of a log. It (your torso up to shoulder level) yields some and rotates as it yields. Zooop, off to the side, for the attacker.

You might should stand sideways to the aggressor. Confusion can arise from taking of position in a horse-riding stance. I think that many seem to think the body and feet always face the same general direction–forward. From a feet parallel low horse-riding stance the upperbody can rotate to where the shoulders squared move slightly more than 90° to either side. That’s a range of motion +180° with shoulders about parallel to feet while the feet remain in place.

A side-facing horse-riding stance with an appropriately timed rotation (and some other stuff), might be helpful if you take that stance for that attack.

Brush Knee and Push of T’ai Chi Ch’uan could also be used for a tackle attack, it seems.

More…

Please post other moves, techniques, stances which you’ve heard/think…are useless.