Would anybody take issue with the suggestion that Wing Chun is a more modern and streamlined system than Pak Mei or SPM?
How is Wing Chun more modern then any other training method?
YF I don’t know how to do brackets thing so I just write best I can & yes NYC not center of universe & with over 80,000 Chinese in Chinatown area alone it is good representative of what kung fu there is so my test still stands & I still don’t lose to WC hand one time & there are several WC people who cannot say same about Hakka Tong Long. No bad blood between any hand is necessary or ever a good thing & is politics not man & not hand. I welcome all people & don’t care what color a person is or anything like that & people who worry about such stuff miss out on much the world has to offer. I learn from all people & my Grandchildren when they were babies teach me things like how to be happy & take joy in small stuff like smiling just to smile. Now they teach me how to laugh at silly stuff & we watch Sponge Bob together & I think snail that meows like cat funny thing & okay to laugh about. People too serious about what other peoples think & people think what they think & only when hands come out is it serious & not thinking but doing & no question about what happened. So I say good talking to you YF & good Holidays to you if you do these Holidays.
Hello Diamond Talon,
I would love to meet some Hakka Tong Long people and get some first hand experience. I have long been intriqued by many of the methods I see in these styles. My wing chun is pretty low level, so I am suggesting a “test” or anything. Just a way to become more familiar with the system. I am interested in learning a hakka art like Tong Long or Leung Ying some time in the near future if I could find someone. Are you aware of any groups in the Sacramento-SF area? SF has a large china town and Sacramento has a large chinese community, though not as centered. I figured there are some Hakka martial arts, but they are not teaching publicy. Any ideas?
Tom
Hi Tom I don’t know many people any more & always hung out with old guys to learn & people my age just to test against & most of the old guys I was with are dead. Young guys know people in different areas so I ask a few of them when I see them this weekend okay? You’re your own man & I not try to tell you what to do & what I see on this forum says you might check with your Sifu to make sure all’s okay & how to ask Tong Long school to visit so they don’t think you’re coming to gong sau over something & just want to touch hands to exchange. So much politic stuff today I don’t know how young guys do it & we never had problems like this today we just tell a friend who was a student at some other place we wanted to come over to touch hands some. Had to do it after class so not to bother their Sifu & that was okay & we not agree a lot of times like on forum but we open to try & give respect where due.
Diamond Talons said:YF I don’t know how to do brackets thing so I just write best I can
((No problem- we are communicating fine))
& yes NYC not center of universe & with over 80,000 Chinese in Chinatown area alone it is good representative of what kung fu there is
((better representative in some styles than in others-never really has been the center of the wing chun world))
so my test still stands & I still don’t lose to WC hand one time & there are several WC people who cannot say same about Hakka Tong Long.
((Again- wing chun is a very uneven world. And MA is full of many stories. WC has its own Hong Kong stories. NYC stories have not playeda big role IMO. In tong long who
were you associated with..Lum Jo(?), GFM, NC or—. ? If you wanted to mention it off list my email is <joy@asu.edu>..I check it off and on despite the spamming buildup. Yuanfen))
Originally posted by desertwingchun2
Man, so thats the reputation wing chun has in this neighborhood?
Can’t say I never thought the same thing !! 
-David [/B]
Hahaha!!
It’s true.
You got me.
It must be a southern thing.
Peace,
Adam
Originally posted by yuanfen
[B]
taoboy sez:I was honestly interested in what WC practitioners thought of SPM.
Great art. If i were not exposed to superb wing chun- I would look hard for a good spm sifu…and I would not pay attention to forum **** chat on the subject.
joy chaudhuri
PS I am glad that good SPM has been less commercialized than
some versions of wing chun. [/B]
Forums provide an anonomous place for people to air their stupidity - whether it be irrelevant arguments about lineage or personal attacks.
I thank you for your kind words about SPM. I would like to train some WC in the future but the WC community here is very interesting (to be polite) and for one as uneducated as me in the world of WC it is hard to choose a good teacher/school.
Oh yeah - WC is only more commercialised due to it’s popularity. I wonder if SPM will ever travel that path? Hmmm?
Peace,
Adam
Streamlined and modern
My experience with Wing chun is limited to watching their fighters in tournaments, and watching their training sessions. I’m no expert, I am curious.
I agree with Adam, that Wing Chun is very popular, it has been well commercialised, and as there are more schools, there are more opportunities for diluted skills. Everybody knows a wing chun novice, but how many can say (other than Diamond Talons) that they have ever met the highest level? That certainly doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Its the numbers that confuse things I suspect.
SPM, PM, are still closeley held, much of it is non-commercial. That is a petty significant difference right there.
Diamond Talons,
What are the “polite” ways to ask to touch hands? What are the different levels of demonstrating or testing anothers skills? Touch hands? cross hands? gong sau? Are their “friendly” encounters with rules as well as “Dangerous” play as you call it? Are there customs that determine the encounters?
Is it bare handed or protected?
I have seen videos of SPM Teacher and old gray Si Gung crossing hands, but not with attacks, but in regular pattern, like the Wing chun exercise. Is this something different?
Have you ever met a Pak Mei Sifu, Ch’n Dor in NYC?
Needlefist, tparkerkfo and desertwingchun2 have filled in the gaps/rationale of my first post quite sufficiently. It appears (and I’m glad to hear it) that wing chun ain’t as shallow as I have so far thought. Needlefist - your question about the source - I simply meant that it is quite possible for a person or a group of persons to create a thing which is a subset of their (combined) knowledge. Despite their hypothetical expertise in many fields, it is (hypothetically) possible that he/she/they created an art which lacked certain aspects purely for short-term aims ie to make fighters. DW2 made clear that some/many WC schools have those deeper aspects and I have zero reason not to adjust to that new info.
Before I started writing - and now - I had in the front of my mind the report of a challenge match between my GM (Ip Shui) and a master of WC. They fought for AN HOUR before calling it a draw. This in mind, I do not ‘slag off’ WC - but just present my experience and reading of it as an outsider.
To shocking power, I go (deep down) with DT’s words that “Bruce Lee’s” 1inch punch is just a trick. And I often think, perhaps perjoritively, that nobody would have heard of WC if it wasn’t for ex-WC student BL.
Another incomplete post but it’s that time of year. Work/party no training even.
-David A.
David A sez:And I often think, perhaps perjoritively, that nobody would have heard of WC if it wasn’t for ex-WC student BL.
That would have been fine with me. I didnt begin wc because of BL…but give credit where it’s due… let’s not be parochial-when Bruce Lee’s “flow” in his movies began to show up stiffer ma moves in older movies- it drove many folks to “kung fu” not just to wing chun.
yuanfen
Het Joy,
I know alot of smart MA’s stay off lists. There is a local school I will be calling on soon to say high.
They teach dragon, S Mantis and another, (Different teachers same store front!
Should be fun
David
YC thanks & I don’t claim to have crossed with the highest WC people just the best in NYC Chinatown at that time & I don’t want to offend YF or any WC peoples as that is politics & cause bad feelings for no good reason. Hakka Tong Long & Pak Mei still closed mostly & that is good & bad like yin yang always. Quality of hand kept & numbers drop as young people today don’t care so much about stuff like this & just buy a gun if problems start & wind up in jail or dead & there are many bad things for just one good thing. To ask to touch hands right I always say the other person is much better than me so there is no problem from start & I don’t care the truth of this thing as I seek to learn so I just declare other person better & after we do it we both know in our hearts the truth & words not needed. You name the different ways to test & each has a place in the life of kung fu man & always it goes to more dangerous until a choice must be made & this is the riddle of 2 paths each must answer just for them in their heart & once the answer is known a person can’t go back & keep their skill. I say this is fact & not opinion. Yes YC to encounters as you’ve named them but the dangerous is not play as I know the word & as I sit here typing like chicken I try to sit still as my Sifu broke 2 my ribs last weekend & I not make that mistake again & that is how I have been taught & that is how I learn. No protection but skill in the hands YC is how I know this thing. Crossing hands not touching hands as I know it YC & there is not pattern but for the one I find in my partner & the one my partner finds in me & the pattern never the same but exists for a moment & then is gone & then the next & then it goes & so on. I don’t know the name Ch’n Dor & still bad blood between PM & HTL in many places to this day so I try to keep to myself these years. I crossed hands with a man known as PM Master a few weeks ago over stupid stuff neither one of us can do anything about & at my age I think this is a very bad example for young guys & I’m ashamed it happened now that my Grandchildren know & ask why I beat up a guy & not my fault but that doesn’t help any with children. People don’t know how precious life is & I mean all life as this is God’s world.
DT
Thank you for your answer, and all that painful chicken picking that was required to get it on-line <grinning>.
I understand what you are saying.
I’m off on holidays my friends. Best of the holidays to you all, and Happy New Year.
DT:sez-Quality of hand kept & numbers drop as young people today don’t care so much about stuff like this & just buy a gun if problems start & wind up in jail or dead & there are many bad things for just one good thing.
((Absolutely true. Keeping the quality of the art is the key. Once gone difficult to recover))
To ask to touch hands right I always say the other person is much better than me so there is no problem from start & I don’t care the truth of this thing as I seek to learn so I just declare other person better & after we do it we both know in our hearts the truth & words not needed
(( me too. The same. Learning is more important than impressing
fools))
David- good luck on your visit. Say hi to Jack M. if he is around))
Joy,
When I see him I will.
My brother lives in AZ now maybe I can visit your school some day too.
David
I train wign chun but I’d like to touch hands to learn from other styles and southern mantis is one of them.
I don’t want to just touch hands with wc people. It would be ideal for me later to have a few tai chi friends, southern mantis, northern to play around with.
2 cents
For better or worse bruce lee and jkd has helped to popularize wing chun, more so than other southern arts have become popular or known to the genera public. That greater attention also mean a greater variety of skill levels and schools.
In the relativel short period of time i have been studying, my idea of wing chun is constantly changing as i am taught more and more is explained to me.
Alot of people (myself included at ome point) get caught in the wing chun is streamlined and you should be able to learn it all in a few years relative to other arts. Actually from what i see the principles are simple and straight forward but understanding all the applications and uses of the principles could take a lifetime.
You teach a 1st grader 1+1 equals 2 which is very simpe yet 1+1 is 2 is also the root of all mathematics (to some degree).
And how many people ever master or even understand calculus, physics, or chemistry, which all use math built on the zero, and 1 plus 1 is 2?
Dont let the talk of center lines, efficiency of movement, elbow in the center mislead you. It is simple yet so much more. Like sil lim tau ( or however you want to spell it) so simple yet everything is built on it. ( I need to practice it some more).
The one thing i do like about wing chun compared to other styles is that there are fewer forms to learn you just have to pull every bit of knowledge out of them as opposed to learning and trying to master alot of forms(relatively speaking)a major benefit.
I do think the mantis styles and bai mei are very interesting, but i would never have the time to learn them.
People of different styles should be able to get together in a non tournament setting to exchange ideas, and show each other how they do things, in a friendly , non-ego related manner.
NP if you like systems without a lot of sets to learn you would also enjoy Hakka Tong Long I think & in many such hands there is only one set for empty hand & every thing else is testing. Good idea on the get together thing & if you ever get it going tell me & if I can’t come to it I will send someone to be there to show support for being open.
Nice post, NeedsPractice.
-David