Re: Something that caught my attention (a quote)
Originally posted by old jong
Why is it so?..This is a common phenomenom.We see guys leaving Wing Chun for other arts …
It’s a common phenomenon in any art. Wing chun is an art with one of the highest numbers of practitioners in the world, so you’re bound to see more movement to and fro. A lot of this movement is, as often stated, because of politics.
But also, in personal development terms, I’ve often heard (tho I don’t have a source for this) that the grade when most people quit Japanese arts is shodan. That’s blackbelt. But the ‘sho’ character reads ‘first’ as in ‘starter’ not the numerical value ‘first’. It is the beginner’s level, when people have absorbed the basics to a reflex, and then they can really start practising basics in earnest!!! 
It’s at this level that people get more bored with the arts. They have seen the Ox, and the Ox is about to wander off out of range again (if you think this is esoteric nonsense, find the Ten Stages of Oxherding… or Chasing the Ox or whatever it’s called - it’s one of the best ways of explaining learning, and enlightenment, and ‘michi’/‘-do’/‘tao’ I’ve ever read… it’s a classical description of learning curves and what have you). They think they get it. They’ve seen it, and recognise it as attainable. Despite the fact that at this stage, deep down they know it’s a path, and there is never any getting it, there is only progress, and inching a little down the road. It’s at that stage that they re-evaluate there commitments to other areas in life, the family, training time, work etc… and for that reason many think of changing/stopping/moving on.
So back to the politics, again, it’s at this level that I suspect most people move on. The reason they move on is because for tsome reason they belive the politics will be less in other schools. Generally of course, the only reson that it would be less is because they are new and not privy to the machinations of the new organization.
Of course, many people move on at earlier stages. Of course, more and more this is MTVism, but then there may actually be a limit to MTVism , a saturation point. The people who come to martial arts instead of just watching MTV are those who are looking for something to give them balance, be it balance of physical vs visual stimulation, exercise over sloth, whatever. And in these cases it can often be as much a failure of the artist/teacher to provide any balance, as the fault of the student (who often starts keen).
You can say that this is because the student lacks motivation and patience, but that rather absolves the teacher from his/her responsibility, not to entertain, but to provide something which isn’t just replacing one dogma of ‘you can get what you want when you want so why bother trying’ (as espoused by disposable culture and MTVism) with another dogma (insert one of a stock of many MAist cliches in here) which really is just laziness, intellectual disingeniousness and self-deceit on the part of the teacher.
In short, most people are looking for something not that gets them out of the box, but that joins all the dots, that helps them to define the extent and limits of the box and to include what belongs for them in their box, and what they get from MA is… another box!!!
This isn’t peculiar to WC, nor to MA.
they see as more “powerfull”!
Is this the case? There are many reasons why people may leave, aside from the one mentioned above. Some people decide they want a more sporty and less theoretically weighty MA. Some people decide they want a more theoretically weighty MA. Some people decide they don’t want an MA at all! I don’t see this as a cause for worry. I’m not as confident as Vaj that what I’ve got is the real deal - what I’ve got is so far good enough for me and has tested out quite well against what other people have got, and is still teaching me new things but I don’t think it’s the dogs bollocks - so I’m not going to say I think people should leave WC, but I’m not going to cry over those that do.
Hsing I …Is it simply easier to integrate than Wing Chun?..
Why do so many Wing Chun people have a problem developping a good moving structure?..
No, of course not. It may look it to some people, but I don’t see why. It’s another path.
And to the second one.. it’s because a lot of people spend a year or more on slt with precious few integrated moving drills, so by the time they go to ck they are already stuck in what they see as a static slt. Some people are lucky enough to be taught some basic stepping, turning etc simultaneously as part of their expansion on the slt base.
If you are taught static positions, you will develop statically. If you want to develop flow and movement, and spontaneity, you have to practise flow and movement.
Now, my guess is that Vaj and a few others will say that slt is not static, which is fine, I agree. But you’ve been training for a long time, so with the benefit of hindsight and looking at slt through the ck, bj etc glasses you can see the sequential development. But how many people can honestly say that their first exposure to slt was a dynamic experience?
I don’t mean dynamic in terms of always sending your energy out, always keeping those hands moving, always keeping the breathing alive, or even in some ck-related way as in dynamic bridging to the floor, linking and delinking your foot-knee-waist etc connections so that you can turn on the power when you need it and be empty when you don’t. I mean really dynamic! As in understanding exactly where slt relates to moving quickly and decisively as in a fight!
Many will cultivate good power and structure in SLT (even if they don’t fully realise it!) but the instant they have to put it in motion,they seem to lose everything! The key to good structure/motion/power cultivation is Chum Kiu but it seems to be the weak link of many wingchunners.Many will consider Chum Kiu as a form for learning “turning” or kicks among other reasons but (IMO) it is solely for learning to coordinate power and motion.The more this form is studied and understood!..The more real power can be applied in Chi-Sau,sparring,you name it!..The trick is to simply use the teachings of the form.Done properly,it possess all the attributes of SLT but using motion as an additive.Just like Hsing I!..(In results anyway!) 
OK generally I agree with this assessment, but have a slight nitpick with your use of ‘additive’. Slt to ck should be a progression, an integration, not an addition. If it’s an addition, then you have the lack of connection between the two that results in poor moving structure.
And again, why don’t they realise they have good power and structure?! Cos they don’t practise live. Cos they aren’t shown the connection between a standing form and a moving form. Cos the teacher has failed!
The other reason IMO, that there is often poor connection in movement is that there isn’t enough practise from a disengaged position. You can’t learn a martial art by only working on how your body works in tandem with somebody else’s (chi sao overreliance?!) any more than yyou can learn one by learning how it works through forms. There has to be balance, learning about engagement, disengagement, lack of flow etc. The generation before ours/our teachers, the WSLs, the William Cheungs, the Hawkins Cheungs etc, were fighting from day one! Or maybe day two! We can’t do this without becoming sociopaths, but we can spar, which is as close as we can get!
Just a few ideas.
Good post OJ.
