Now that the MMA thing is attracting many Wing Chun people in it’s circles.What will happen to the more traditional practitioners and their art?..
I think that the MMA/Wing Chun adaptation will not hurt the more traditional art most practices.There is room enough for everybody in the Wing Chun world.I would also be personaly pleased to see some Wing Chun guy perform well in that venue. I always believed that a Wing Chun practitioner could do well with a proper physical training and strategic preparation similar to a pro-boxer.
But, this really concern the very small minority who want’s to “conquier the world”… A few young athletic guys and their gurus!..
The vast majority will simply continue calmly walking the Wing Chun path,enjoying and discovering the deepness of the art.There should be no conflict between the two factions,as there should be no bad feelings between different lineages.Opinions can differ but respect and understanding should dominate.
Today, I talk with my age and experience but I can understand that a younger guy with a competitive drive might say differently. Two different truth. Two different needs.
that’s all.
like any thing that is well built , you need a strong foundation
even a [[ jkd freak:) ]] knows this
wing chun is a wonderful core , a strong tree from which you can have many branches
gary has often passed this on once you know wing chun it’s easy to pick things up from other arts but other arts can seem to pick things up from wing chun very well
i really feel wing chun gives us a great filter to cut through the b.s. and get to the meat of any art
now if we have the time and desire to investigate that is up to us
but really in the end highly skilled fighters are more alike then different no matter what art
so the lines are not that definitive
Perhaps we could have a Wing Chun Political Party here in the United States someday…a Wing Chun President - a Wing Chun foreign policy (ie.- PERMANENT no questions asked most-favored-nation status for China) - A Wing Chun cabinet (made out of wood, of course)…A Wing Chun House of Representatives (ie.- TWC, HFY, Yip Man lineage with many sub-dept. heads…VT, WT, WC, XYZ), Yuan Kay San, etc…A Wing Chun Senate (ie. Senator Cheung, Senator Ting, Senator Gee…you get the picture…
No museums, though…no…But wait - how about A Dept. of Bong Sao - to recover from unexpected events…A Dept. of Energy (we’ll put Hendrik Santo in charge - if he stops doing Kyocushin)…A Dept. of Justice - headed by Don Chi Sao - to root out the MMA underworld - only thre best MMA’s can stay - the rest get deported to Thailand to visit the King and ask for his approval…oh yes…I see it coming - and a world summit headed by President William Jefferson Tan Sao…putting his hand out in palm up position asking for foreign aid to help fight Terrorists…
Yes - it’s all on the horizon…but only after we have a Candidate to go into the UFC and kick butt !!!
I believe one can both practice WC as a traditional MA and at the same time explore the rich tapestry of other disciplines out there.
The history and philosophy of science are fascinating. But to be bound by historical precedent or group pressure is to retard growth. Exploration is where the breakthroughs come from, and where the life is at its richest.
Shu Ha Ri, a traditional way of approaching Japanese MA study, demands that the practitioner eventually break, and then transcend the rules. So looking outside the box of tradition is arguably a tradition in itself.
Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
[B]Perhaps we could have a Wing Chun Political Party here in the United States someday…a Wing Chun President - a Wing Chun foreign policy (ie.- PERMANENT no questions asked most-favored-nation status for China) - A Wing Chun cabinet (made out of wood, of course)…A Wing Chun House of Representatives (ie.- TWC, HFY, Yip Man lineage with many sub-dept. heads…VT, WT, WC, XYZ), Yuan Kay San, etc…A Wing Chun Senate (ie. Senator Cheung, Senator Ting, Senator Gee…you get the picture…
No museums, though…no…But wait - how about A Dept. of Bong Sao - to recover from unexpected events…A Dept. of Energy (we’ll put Hendrik Santo in charge - if he stops doing Kyocushin)…A Dept. of Justice - headed by Don Chi Sao - to root out the MMA underworld - only thre best MMA’s can stay - the rest get deported to Thailand to visit the King and ask for his approval…oh yes…I see it coming - and a world summit headed by President William Jefferson Tan Sao…putting his hand out in palm up position asking for foreign aid to help fight Terrorists…
Yes - it’s all on the horizon…but only after we have a Candidate to go into the UFC and kick butt !!! [/B]
No…but seriously…Of course there’s room for everybody. The political joke is actually a good analogy, in a way…both liberals and conservatives are necessary to maintain the dynamic equilibrium that keeps the Republic afloat…The conservatives traditonally try to preserve what is, what has always been - while liberals traditonally stood for change and progressive evolution in policy and direction…
These dynamics are constantly in interchange (ie. - the “liberal” Kerry is now calling for traditionally conservative minded balanced budgets - and “conservative” Bush wants to do traditonally “liberal-like” things such as nation-building (ie.- Iraq).
THESE THINGS HAPPEN IN THEORY…OF COURSE…not necessarily reality… Remember The Who: “Meet the new boss - same as the old boss”… (ie.- Bush’s “liberal” nation-building is motivated by traditional '‘conservative" concern for big corporate interests - like OIL…and Kerry wants a balanced budget so that Bush’s deficit spending won’t totally dry up the nations’ ability to pay for tradtionally “liberal” programs like social security, etc.)
But the larger point is…both “traditional” approaches and “progressive” approaches to Wing Chun must and will interplay off each other to drive the art into the future…
I can understand your views about crostraining/blending other arts elements.No problems with that.
I myself do some Judo on the side occasionaly.
The thread is not about this.(The W.C/MMA thread is there for this)
What about simple pure Wing Chun,even if some seem not able to even tolerate the thought of it?.. It will survive for sure,like all these other traditional CMA’s.
I personaly don’t care about “proving myself” to anybody or fight for an audience.Even if I can throw a nice jab/direct/hook/uppercut/shovel and can apply a few chokes and locks,I don’t feel the need to blend these things into my Wing Chun. I’m perfectly happy with my Wing Chun practice and teaching.It is a personal thing.I enjoy learning and going deeper into what I consider a great martial art.I see it as a simple weapon that can be sharpened endlessly through times and patient practice.I admit,it does not possess all the techniques and answers to every possible questions but,who really know all answers and be really ready all the times for them?..Life is too short to worry about that kind of things anyway.Wing Chun has other benefits too.Side-effects I could say! Health/mental etc…
The years will surely calm down even the toughest MMA fighters someday.What will you do after your mid-life crisis is done,when you finaly listen to your body and common sense?..When you don’t feel the need to compare to the young studs out there anymore ?..
Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun Perhaps we could have a Wing Chun Political Party here in the United States someday…a Wing Chun President - a Wing Chun foreign policy (ie.- PERMANENT no questions asked most-favored-nation status for China)
nah, let’s go open source, just Wing Chunux! no politics
Old Jong-
Wing Chun has been going in different directions for a long time
and is likely to continue to do so.
Look at the JKD phenomenon- now the MMA-
some of the reasons are the same.
Folks who continue to understand and discover the principles of the art will also continue to develop it. In good hands the art and the artists will continue to evolve. A great art like wing chun is an introduction to nature- and nature is endless- its always spring.
Because of its natural-ness, perceptive wing chun folks will see
sparks of the arts insights into nature in other activities- however brief and still develop their own wing chun..(I think Ernie referred to this phenomenon in passing)
Thus-
Tyson in his prime with the right guidance had the squarebodied
two handedness, short power, little quick footwork, balance and efficient lines. Lack of continued guidance, dissipation, aging
(a real liability in the quick personal entropy of success in sports)
makes him the caricature that he is.Sigung Ho liked Tyson’s short little straight uppercuts with either hand.Almost the chum kiu drilling punches.
But boxing is a sport- and weight can make a difference- Tyson is
a small heavyweight by todays standards- so you have to turn to breaking arms and biting ears- out of frustration- but those things arent cricket in some sports!
Royce and his most effective half brother’s quality of staying relaxed and soft in difficult situations is also simpatico with nature. ..specially witha mat and a cage.Wing chun has that element of softness and calm when practiced well- and is applicable in many more contexts than on your back, on the mat and in the cage.
Wing chun is not a limited bag of techniques-it is as good a system I know of in its understanding of the principles of martial motion.
When one is tool oriented- then one runs around looking for some missing tool. Happens in other fields too.
Joy.
You mentioned the word …Tools.
IMHO, the real tools of Wing Chun are: (in random order)
—Body unity and structure
—Awareness of lines (attack/defense)
—Timings
—Relaxed punching power
—Calm mind/capacity to adapt motions for present needs
—Patience needed to develop these attributes
The MMa’s guys tend to focus more on the technical things and formulas in their discussions but,any Wing Chun based guy will agree on these “tools” value,basic and essentials to Wing Chun. (Whatever the lineage)
Everybody is free to enjoy what he likes. Some may prefer a more traditional way?..Some want a more diverse approach?..Good!..Let’s talk about both ways without jugements.Both can help eachothers as Victor said earlier.We are all unique after all!..
Originally posted by Knifefighter Many arts have different versions- BJJ has the sport gi form; the NHB/MMA vale tudo style; the “street” method; and the self-defense version.
I am aware of that. And I’m sure even the “recreational” practitioners who fight from their knees get lots of benefits from their training. They simply don’t have the need for Vale Tudo.
It’s the same in Wing Chun. Most just want to practice their art and get better without the need to feel like the “king of the hill” or even think about self-defense!..
Does this mean that their arts are of no value?..I don’t think so.Both get real benefits from their practice.Physical,mental,even spiritual.Plus…Ingrained self-defense attributes.
The sport fighters need something else ,I know!..
A few young athletic guys and their gurus!..
