This man has wing chun skills

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
21

‘I will ride thier hatred like the Wind, and deliver them to thier own Destruction.’

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856173]Greychaun,

I no longer do chi sao [/QUOTE]

And this is exactly why you need not make any comments one way or the other. You dont practice Chi Sao therefore you have no knowledge of how it ‘works’ or doesnt ‘work’.

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856173] You can’t develop realistic (fighting) skills via chi sao, only via fighting/sparring (realistic training). [/QUOTE]

…and what the hell do you think chi sao is? NOW Im starting to see your problem. Oh! How do you not hear the grasshopper at your feet?

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856173] Once you’ve learned the movement and can perform it in the unrealistic, artificial exercise that is chi sao, it is time to move on. To stay there, to continue doing chi sao, is to stop your growth in terms of developing fighitng skills. [/QUOTE]

… and how do you know that Chunnas dont do this? What makes you think that any martial art doesnt do this?
Have YOU done it? Was it successful? Probably not. But then that was Wing Chun’s fault ,right? It had absolutly nothing to do with the 25 plus years you say you have devoted to an art. You are an attourney…an educated man, schooled in logic and should be used to a higher level of thinking…YET you spent 25 plus years on an art that you claim doesnt work. Why did you do this? Surely if it doesnt work then you would have figured it out a lot sooner.
Lets face it…I can’t engineer a plan to put a man on the moon, but I know bull @ # $ when I see it. And it would not have taken 25 plus years.

WING CHUN is not your problem.

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856173]In fact, my view is that chi sao isn’t even a very good learning platform.[/QUOTE]

…I’ll just put this one on ice. It’ll come back to haunt you.:eek:

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856173]Of course, don’t take my word for it, just go to a good muay thai or MMA school, and see if you can do in fighting those things you can do so well in chi sao. You’ll see.[/QUOTE]

     ...zzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856173]The goal of martial art training is to develop fighting skills, not artificial, unrealistic drill skills. You don’t judge how good a boxer is except through his performance boxing or a wrestler except through his performance wrestling. The only way to see skill, to see performance ability, is by and through performance. In the martial arts, that performance is fighting. If you can’t do it in fighting, you have no skill.

You haven’t seen me “in action” because you haven’t come to see me. If you are interested, pay me a visit. Or, make it easier on yourself and go to a good MMA or MT school and see. Either way, you’ll get the same experience.[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Now why would I come see you? I doubt you would really even want this to happen. Something tells me you have had a bad experience with this or something. You are way past ‘vendetta’ stage against Wing Chun and I dont know why.

Good luck to you ,T. :wink:

22

Interesting, I have been to Magic Johnson’s basketball camps for 6 years in a row coming up in Detroit and growing up in the same area has him, our high schools actually played each other…

When I say that I went too his camps, I mean I actually work there each summer… I’ve played with the man and practice with him also, what you are saying about him is true…

Magic Johnson is a team player and he has prove that over and over again through his passing while in the game… Too make such high percentage in assist shows that he really drills his understanding of the plays…

All we did was drills and more drills, but too make the cut you had too have a game heart and if anyone deviates from the drills, they were gone that day… If you don’t drill then how can anyone execute the game plan?

Almost everything in life has drills too comprehend an understanding or procedure… In life everything is based on a fundamental standpoint, it’s not always about advancement, because most of us have too deal with what is handed to us and nothing more…

The more that ones fundamentals and basic are sound, the more that one would be better off in life, and never forget where you’re from and who you are… If one trained in something and made it theirs, why give up something for a so-called advancement, when it’s the fundamentals and basic in life that makes one shine…

Ali Rahim.

23

Greychaun,

I know you are happy with your fantasy-based wing chun, so why do you want to discuss things with me?

I know how to do chi sao, did it for years, have done it with people on this forum. It’s a step, not the destination. If you stay on the step, you never get to the destination.

I know you will never come to visit me or go spar at a good MMA or MT school; you don’t practice WCK. You practice the curriculum of WCK, over and over and over. Keep repeating those forms, keep doing the drills, etc. This is what fantasy-based people do. And they derive their fantasy-based “knowledge” and skills from that practice. If you’re happy doing that, do it. That’s fine. But that doesn’t produce good skills. Never has.

I’ve never said WCK doesn’t work. I’ve said that the traditional martial art training regimen doesn’t produce good fighting skills. You can make WCK work – by training it like a modern fighter trains. I’ve met others besides my group that does that. They’re out there.

24

chi-sao is a means to an end and by no means the end :smiley:

I attack you, you try to stop me, what you put in my way is for ‘no mind’ to fight.

how good is your attack ? do you stand and roll with wrist energy ? is that attacking striking ? why elbows ?

wrist stickers or elbow developers = 2 very different fighters. :smiley:

25

?

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856227]Greychaun,

I know you are happy with your fantasy-based wing chun, so why do you want to discuss things with me?

I know how to do chi sao, did it for years, have done it with people on this forum. It’s a step, not the destination. If you stay on the step, you never get to the destination.

I know you will never come to visit me or go spar at a good MMA or MT school; you don’t practice WCK. You practice the curriculum of WCK, over and over and over. Keep repeating those forms, keep doing the drills, etc. This is what fantasy-based people do. And they derive their fantasy-based “knowledge” and skills from that practice. If you’re happy doing that, do it. That’s fine. But that doesn’t produce good skills. Never has.

I’ve never said WCK doesn’t work. I’ve said that the traditional martial art training regimen doesn’t produce good fighting skills. You can make WCK work – by training it like a modern fighter trains. I’ve met others besides my group that does that. They’re out there.[/QUOTE]

The only fantasy here is my thinking that you can actually converse about Wing Chun. Sorry to waste your time.

Peace.

26

[QUOTE=k gledhill;856234]chi-sao is a means to an end and by no means the end :smiley:

I attack you, you try to stop me, what you put in my way is for ‘no mind’ to fight.

how good is your attack ? do you stand and roll with wrist energy ? is that attacking striking ? why elbows ?

wrist stickers or elbow developers = 2 very different fighters. :D[/QUOTE]

So is the guy with a chair or baseball bat or rabid wet badger !
:smiley:

27

Attacking Structure

I like how he attacks structure with his bridging. He used the Bong-Sao really good with a bracing step forward toward his partner. I also liked that slap and chop off of the lan-sao bridge just like out of the wooden man form. Cool stuff.

28

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856227]Greychaun,

I know how to do chi sao, did it for years, have done it with people on this forum. It’s a step, not the destination. If you stay on the step, you never get to the destination. [/QUOTE]

Chi Sao, to me, is like an excercise that an artist will do. It starts off as limited due to your limited skill level, but then it grows into almost anything you want it to because your skill level has grown. Picasso could paint some crazy stuff, but he could only do that because he knew how to figure draw with a pencil. (I know, I’m becoming the analogy guy here) Same thing with Chi Sao. The more Wing Chun you know the more you can do with it. It’s like when you first start doing it with your Sifu he takes it easy on you. When you get more skill he all of the sudden ramps it up on you. Wing Chun is principle based. As long as you follow those principles, you can go anywhere. That’s why it’s so cool. It’s limitless.

29

Ooooooooooo K.

[QUOTE=k gledhill;856234]chi-sao is a means to an end and by no means the end :D[/QUOTE]

When did anyone in here every say anyhting different? The start of this thread was’ This man has skills’. When did anyone here try to say that this was fighting. It translates into fighting yes. And whether you like it or not Chi Sao is a method of training to fight.
K Gled, you and T need to stop trying to put wordz in peeps mouths. We are ok with the fact that you dont understand how Chi Sao translates into fighting. Its ok. Really. So when there is a thread that is discussing Chi-Sao we will also be ok with you not contributing since you never have any intention of discussing Chi Sao AND since you have already told us your ‘view is that chi sao isnt even a very good training platform’ (Its back…Who you gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!!!)

You dont see me in the MMA forums trying to preach about how thier training methods dont work even tho I dont even do MMA*(As you dont do CHI SAO).

Please leave us to our discussion.

  • Maybe this is a subject for another thread, however this craze about Mixed Martial Arts is fundamentally flawed anyway since most of the ‘artists’ that practice them have not practiced anything long enuff to even understand the fundamentals on ONE art let alone the principles of more than one. As far as I am concerned there are very few peeps that even have the right to talk about mixing arts anyways. This is my $.02.
30

exactly…

[QUOTE=WaveWingChun;856242]… The more Wing Chun you know the more you can do with it… [/QUOTE]

What HE said…!:smiley:

31

[QUOTE=Graychuan;856251]When did anyone in here every say anyhting different? The start of this thread was’ This man has skills’. When did anyone here try to say that this was fighting. It translates into fighting yes. And whether you like it or not Chi Sao is a method of training to fight.
K Gled, you and T need to stop trying to put wordz in peeps mouths. We are ok with the fact that you dont understand how Chi Sao translates into fighting. Its ok. Really. So when there is a thread that is discussing Chi-Sao we will also be ok with you not contributing since you never have any intention of discussing Chi Sao AND since you have already told us your ‘view is that chi sao isnt even a very good training platform’ (Its back…Who you gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!!!)

You dont see me in the MMA forums trying to preach about how thier training methods dont work even tho I dont even do MMA*(As you dont do CHI SAO).

Please leave us to our discussion.

  • Maybe this is a subject for another thread, however this craze about Mixed Martial Arts is fundamentally flawed anyway since most of the ‘artists’ that practice them have not practiced anything long enuff to even understand the fundamentals on ONE art let alone the principles of more than one. As far as I am concerned there are very few peeps that even have the right to talk about mixing arts anyways. This is my $.02.[/QUOTE]

And let the church say, WELL!!!

32

[QUOTE=t_niehoff;856075]You can’t tell how good anyone’s WCK is by their forms or their chi sao. None of that reflects (or even develops) realistic WCK (fighting) skills. Have him spar with some good muay thai or MMA fighters and then you’ll see what he can really do or not do. WCK is fighting. If you don’t see fighting, then you aren’t seeing WCK.[/QUOTE]

you are right, you have to see things in their different context

the context of that video is of training and teaching his students some situations in the training envrionment

it won’t look like that in a brawl at all

33

[QUOTE=Graychuan;856251]

  • Maybe this is a subject for another thread, however this craze about Mixed Martial Arts is fundamentally flawed anyway since most of the ‘artists’ that practice them have not practiced anything long enuff to even understand the fundamentals on ONE art let alone the principles of more than one. As far as I am concerned there are very few peeps that even have the right to talk about mixing arts anyways. This is my $.02.[/QUOTE]

Isn’t it surprising how people who “aren’t qualified” to mix arts do so well in their ability to use their skills? It’s because they are no longer being fooled by the doctrines that say someone has to practice 30 years before they’re able “truly” master their system and be able to fight.

The problem some people have is that not everyone is created equal…some people can and will gain proficiency in a system in much less time than others. I say proficiency because no one is invincible and no one is perfect…thus no one can truly master anything, only achieve a zen-like performance of it when they no longer have to think about what they’re doing.

At the same time, chi sao to me improves certain attributes, but that’s about it. It is the varying practitioners that try to make it something it isn’t by calling it “sparring”.

34

[QUOTE=Vankuen;856361]Isn’t it surprising how people who “aren’t qualified” to mix arts do so well in their ability to use their skills? It’s because they are no longer being fooled by the doctrines that say someone has to practice 30 years before they’re able “truly” master their system and be able to fight.

The problem some people have is that not everyone is created equal…some people can and will gain proficiency in a system in much less time than others. I say proficiency because no one is invincible and no one is perfect…thus no one can truly master anything, only achieve a zen-like performance of it when they no longer have to think about what they’re doing.

At the same time, chi sao to me improves certain attributes, but that’s about it. It is the varying practitioners that try to make it something it isn’t by calling it “sparring”.[/QUOTE]
So well said Van. People say your tan is too low, too high you shouldn’t step this or that way, you shouldn’t fight on the outside or inside. If you can pull it off who cares? People fight well without ever having heard of Chi Sao. Chi sao isn’t sparring nor fighting but I teach and use chi sao principles for fighting. Opinions vary. There is one test though and that is fighting with people outside of your school who will try to wreck you. Otherwise it’s all theory.

35

RRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhht

[QUOTE=Graychuan;856251]When did anyone in here every say anyhting different? The start of this thread was’ This man has skills’. When did anyone here try to say that this was fighting. It translates into fighting yes. And whether you like it or not Chi Sao is a method of training to fight.
K Gled, you and T need to stop trying to put wordz in peeps mouths. We are ok with the fact that you dont understand how Chi Sao translates into fighting. Its ok. Really. So when there is a thread that is discussing Chi-Sao we will also be ok with you not contributing since you never have any intention of discussing Chi Sao AND since you have already told us your ‘view is that chi sao isnt even a very good training platform’ (Its back…Who you gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!!!)

You dont see me in the MMA forums trying to preach about how thier training methods dont work even tho I dont even do MMA*(As you dont do CHI SAO).

Please leave us to our discussion.

  • Maybe this is a subject for another thread, however this craze about Mixed Martial Arts is fundamentally flawed anyway since most of the ‘artists’ that practice them have not practiced anything long enuff to even understand the fundamentals on ONE art let alone the principles of more than one. As far as I am concerned there are very few peeps that even have the right to talk about mixing arts anyways. This is my $.02.[/QUOTE]

talk on …:smiley: the mountain can be climbed many ways but the view VT presents takes a specific path of ‘thinking’…no amount of redundant rolling will produce it like a rabbit out of a hat…time spent is no guarantee either.

cricket ejecting from well ..3,2,1 !! boooinngg :smiley:

36

[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;856365]So well said Van. People say your tan is too low, too high you shouldn’t step this or that way, you shouldn’t fight on the outside or inside. If you can pull it off who cares? People fight well without ever having heard of Chi Sao. Chi sao isn’t sparring nor fighting but I teach and use chi sao principles for fighting. Opinions vary. There is one test though and that is fighting with people outside of your school who will try to wreck you. Otherwise it’s all theory.[/QUOTE]

Yep, and we all know how much chunner’s love their theories! I just hope people don’t misconstrue what I’ve said around the forums recently as me being a traditionalist hating UFC humper. Far from it.

I’m simply a realist who prefers a pragmatic approach to fighting and learning the skills to fight. Don’t care what other’s think of my “style”, don’t care if someone’s a master, don’t care if someone’s a grandmaster. People are people; some can fight, some can’t. Bottom line is whether I can fight.

Some guys question my “skills” because I’ve learned and gained high ranks in other styles…and give the whole “It’s better to have one sharp knife than many dull ones” speech. They assume that my knives are dull because I have a few of them. A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, a throw is a throw. It’s all the same shiet minus a couple tweaks here and there. Once a person realizes this, learning other systems is cake.

For example, I just started taking Judo as of tonight. I learned a couple moves and applied them immediately in free sparring against resisting opponents. It’s just a matter of absorbing and applying. I just think that some people get upset because it may not be that easy for them to learn and apply.

And the fact of the matter is that while no styles are bad, not all of them are good either; in that they don’t give answers to all the problems one might face. People get offended because someone realized this and decided to look elsewhere for something functional where their style has a deficit.

In summary…people need to stop being so sensitive about their faults or their style’s faults and get out there and take care of business. Don’t worry about what other people are doing, or what they think for that matter. It’s all about the individual. The kingdom of heaven lies within.

37

so you dont know

Lol spare me the condescending attitude of the recent WSL convert who just realised elbow position and energy is important. The problem with you guys is that once you have climbed to this next “step” as Terrence would call it, you just sit there theorising about elbows. Got to keep moving, there’s so much more to do. Are you a philip bayer student by any chance? You remind me of someone

38

Yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnn!

I actually thought this thread would produce some lil insights from people about the clips of Louison Sifu?! How wrong eh?!

I’m falling asleep reading the same old dribble :rolleyes:

I think everyone needs to step back and really look at what we’re doing here. I do all the time, and recently I’ve been wondering why I even bother?!! :frowning:

There does seem to be a fighting majority here, which is a shame. And some that claim to know what Chisau is just seem to be wishful thinkers. Chisau is so much more than what you’re teachers have told you, or what you have read in books.

And as for old doctrine ruining the Traditional Martial Arts?! HA!! Coming from people who have never even had access to ‘doctrines’! It’s just laughable… :smiley:

39

[QUOTE=guy b.;856383]Lol spare me the condescending attitude of the recent WSL convert who just realised elbow position and energy is important. The problem with you guys is that once you have climbed to this next “step” as Terrence would call it, you just sit there theorising about elbows. Got to keep moving, there’s so much more to do. Are you a philip bayer student by any chance? You remind me of someone[/QUOTE]

its not elbow position and energy its the whole system , still not there ? :smiley:

is important ? lmao the reason we do dan chi-sao , chi-sao…is to develop the idea, not to stick.

The core idea of SLT is to isolate this ability …why ? you answer because its important :smiley:

yes correct :smiley: why ? to stick redundantly to another’s arms in a free for all classic sticky mess flailing like patty cake just to make a ‘touch’ and say “I got you” ?

I’m a student of Philipp Bayer . :smiley: heard it before huh ?

40

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;856388]I actually thought this thread would produce some lil insights from people about the clips of Louison Sifu?! How wrong eh?!
[/QUOTE]

It’s a shame because he really has talented… This is what the masses here really approve of and consider as quality wing chun, just about every member here or every other member has posted their opinion and approval of this mans skills, in which is all good…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGvV0OwrMI8

It’s their right to compliment or give positive insight to anyone they want too, and when they want too… Its nothing anyone one can say about that… Maybe they really feel his skills are not up to par, Yeah right!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onA-Jv8Ft9E

It’s just the wrong place and wrong time…

Take care,

Ali Rahim.