The system of clf

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Southern Chinese Kung Fu
41

Hi Frank,

I am trying to stay away but you keep pulling me back with your thoughtless comments. One more try:

CLF is like a huge tree and having branches means there is a tunk and roots to keep the tree strong and upright.

The trunk is Chan Heung and the roots are Shaolin.

Don’t try to turn the 3 branches into 3 trunks, that would make it odd tree and we will not survive.

Build more branches but keep the trunk and the roots healthy and we will survive, otherwise we die.

It is not only history we are talking about here, it is about the survival of a tradition, which is up to us.

CLF Yut Gar!

EJ

42

just as long as Tam Sam and Jeong Yim are standing in the same founders box, then there will be no more problems brother joe.

i know you only say i’m thoughtless because of how i stand on my position.

but i got love for ya anyway dude.

43

Hi Frank,

Take a look at a healthy tree sometime, it has many branches and one thick trunk! Tam Sam, Jeong Yim and Loong Chi-Choy are the founders of a branch but Chan Heung is the trunk and our roots are in Shaolin.

So here is a picture of a healthy CLF “tree” :

Our roots are in Shaolin,
Chan Heung is the trunk, the founder of CLF,
Tam Sam is the founder of the Bak Sing branch of CLF (youngest),
Jeong Yim is the founder of Great Victory Hung Sing branch of CLF (in the middle),
Loong Chi Choy is the founder of Heroic Hung Sing branch of CLF (oldest), and
Chan Heung’s descendants belong to the Great Sage Hung Sing branch of CLF, also an extension of the trunk.

Like a tree, there are many parts where two or three branches are mixed and also mixed with the trunk. By studying with Dino and then with Futsan you are mixing the branches but you are still part of the same tree.

But trying to cut off the Jeong Yim branch and forcefuly graft it onto the main trunk (insisting on Jeong Yim being the co-founder of CLF), you will either be rejected and fall off or kill the tree eventually. Do you really want this?

If you want to be a Futsan Hung Sing hero, then don’t try to cut it off from the rest of the tree, make it a healthy and strong branch instead, then everyone in CLF will benefit from your action and you can stand tall and proud.

Divide and we shall fall, work together and we will be healthy and strong and above all, we will endure. What do you say?

CLF Yut Gar!

44

XJ:

Who were some of the more well known sifus from the Loong Chi Choy - Heroic Victory Hung Sing branch?

Just curious becuase you never here much about it.

Thanks.

45

CLFNOLE,

I know others will bring up…“it was common to cross train and switch from sifu to sifu” because they were CLF.

But, according to the Li Iu Ling website, Lee Yan, Yuen Hai, and a few others who are well known disciples of Jeong Yim were labelled as Loong Gee Choy’s students.

But, nowhere in any of these existing branches claim Loong Gee Choy.

This is one of the reasons I think Loong Gee Choy and Jeong Yim could possibly be the same person.

Not much is known about loong gee choy unless the chan family just never released anything. but if there was mor on him, then i think would have found it, heard about it or read it. But, the only branch that speaks about Loong Gee Choy is the Chan Family.

Now, Joseph, if you jump in on this, let’s not get this out of hand. It is just a theory I have.

46

here is a link

http://www.liiuling.net.au/pdf/CLFlineages.pdf

the link above says that Loong Gee Choy’s students were:

Chung Yeung, Cheung Hing, Yuen Hai (lau buns sifu) , Li Yan (singapore hsk line) and Lui Chun,(Tam Sam’s sifu).

However, if this were true, why don’t any of these currently existing schools have Loong Gee Choy in their lineage, but “ALL” are well known disciples of Jeong Hung Sing.

also, Joseph, i think you are wrong about On Pak dying young. According to the Li Iu Ling site On Pak died in his early 30’s in 1873. Dying in your 30’s was and still is considered young, especially when back then people were living over 100 years.

47

Who actually started the Heroic Hung Sing?

From what i read, some say it was Chan Yiu Chi, some say Chan Koon Pak, and now maybe Loong Gee Choy???

If it was Loong Gee Choy, then why was his Hung SIng different to that of Chan Family, he was such a trusted disciple Chan Heung left him to take care of him?

48

The reason why CLF is so strong in the southern part of China and the official Nanquan is mostly CLF is because of the legacy of Loong Chi-Choy.

The present day Wushu officials in Guangdong were mostly from his line, people like Ou Han-Quan, Chen Cheng-Mian (Eddie inquired about him earlier) and Dong De-Qian, they came through Fong Yuk-Shu and Yuan Hai. Yuan was trained mainly by Loong Chi-Choy who came from Guangzi, therefore his influence never gone much beyond the mainland so you guys don’t hear much of him in America, except his connection with Lau Bun but Frank reckon Yuan studied with Jeong Yim and not with Loong.

Don’t forget they did not have the kind of branch separation and the distance like we have today, everyone trained together, so many of the second generations studied with Loong Chi-Choy and Jeong Yim, Jeong Yim and Chan Koon-Pak, Loong Chi-Choy and Chan Koon-Pak and host of other instructors trained by Chan Heung and some even get to train with Chan Heung when he was alive, at the same time.

But according to the Fong Yuk-Shu’s line they traced their lineage back to Loong and their line is politically very strong and that means something in China.

49

So are you saying that the majority of CLF from mainland China comes from Loong Chi Choy?

Do you know if CLF spread to Taiwan? I know it spread into Singapore and Malaysia but I have heard anything about Taiwan.

Thanks.

50

Loong Chi-Choy did not started Heroic Hung Sing, it came by way of neccessity to hide the name “Great Sage” from the Ching government.

It is a courtesy to give the honour to Loong Chi-Choy to acknowledge his contribution to CLF. Heroic Hung Sing and Great Sage Hung Sing were synonymous at one time.

51

Where did you get this info, is this book available?

Chan Heung broke down the training of his system into 2 main stages, each of which has 3 sub-stages…culminating in complete mastery of the systems foundation as well as nei jin or internal power, and the weapons and art of sand bag and jongs.

What are the 2 stages and what are the substages?

For lian kung, Chan Heung listed sup yil or 10 essentials of which number 7 and hei cheung and number 8 faht heung indicates the importance of breathing in the art of Choy Lee Fut.

Translations for lian kung, sup yil and faht heung…please.

Chan Heung says “Mei lian kuen sik ji chin, sihn jarp ma bo” and the kuet lian ho sao but yue lian ho jou indicate the importance of the footwork training in CLF. The system contains two types of stances, both koh jong and dai jong.

Could you translate the saying and koh jong and dai jong.

52

what else do you know about loong gee choy joseph?

why is his line so short?

why woud his own people not claim him?

You say i reckon that Yuen Learned from Jeong Yim. However, Professor Lau Bun never told this to Jew Leong or any of his other students. I’m sure if Loong Gee Choy was Yuen Hai’s teacher Lau Bun would have told his students that.

I’m sure Lau Bun asked Yuen Hai who his sifu was, and it’s always said to have been Jeong Yim.

Lun Chee is the only person alive right now that had met Yuen Hai, and he remembered him as being a true disciple of Jeong Yim.

Still, because of the CHan Family, I have learned more about Yuen Hai. For example, he was the Vice President of the Guandong Martial Arts Association.

I recall Au Hon Chun the one joseph is talking about also remembered info about yuen hai as well, and said once Yuen Hai and his students saved Fong Yuk SHu from being attacked. But He never said that Yuen Hai was a disciple of Loong Gee Choy, He told the Singapore HSK that Yuen Hai was the main student of Jeong Yim.

No one in Hung SIng has ever place Yuen Hai and Loong Gee Choy in the same breath.

Although I do like the Idea of Loong Gee Choy Being Chan Heung’s 1st student, which means Yuen Hai’s CLF is amongst the highest in CLF. Loong Gee Choy was the Dai Si-Hing, and Yuen Hai was his. I like that.

But, the Yuen Hai line, Singapore, and others who know my lineage cannot prove or disprove this information. So, we will have to stay with Yuen Hai being Jeong Yim’s number 1 disciple.

Joseph, where is the loyalty amongst so many gung fu practitioners if they were all cross trainging with each other? I thought once you took a sifu that’s it. I understand learning from si-sooks and such, but still.

Another thing, none of the gung fu that we practice from Lau Bun’s branch can be traced back to Loong Gee Choy, but our gung fu down to the most basic sets are that of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon. None of our CLF looks or begins like chan family clf. why is that?

The more i hear about Loong Gee Choy, i am more and more convinced that he and Jeong Yim are one and the same. There is just too many similarities between to two. Too many to be comfortable with.

53

Hi Frank,

I am running out of time in this place, you need to go to Guangzhou to do some research instead of Futsan.

Sorry bro. got to run.

You take care.

EJ

54

I would hope that most clf peeps like hskwarrior know that. This info is elementary information all sounds that are made are designed to create vibrations and help resinate energy to create power. I wasn’t aware that this was news.

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