The Stance2

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
21

Hua Lin Laoshi & 8StepSifu

From reading what you wrote, it seems that you and your sifu are at contention then; he feels that the stance “…sucks. Worthless for combat, worthless for combat training. Harmfull [sic] to the body, and horribly unaligned.” Again, what is in question is your sifu’s right to put down one of the most well-respected masters in the world. What is even more intruiging is that not only does he put down Chan Pui, but it is obvious that he knows nothing of Wah Lum Tam Tui (otherwise, why bother asking about the style on the main forum?). I have been involved in the traditional Chinese Martial Arts for a very, very long time (so much for being a “beginner,” eh 8StepSifu?). It has been my experience that very good masters know of the other very good masters; even if those masters are very low key and do not promote themselves. 8StepSifu, who do you know that can vouch for your skill? Grandmaster Sun? Who else? I doubt you can come up with a list of even five legitimate masters not in your own family who can say without reservation that you have “good kungfu.”
You can say over and over again that you think the stance “sucks.” We all know that you think it sucks. What I want to know is whether or not you can really back up those words. So far all I have seen is “I can back them up because I am a sifu!” and “I know combat! That’s why!” I’m sorry, but so far all you have proven to me is that you have a big mouth that you can’t keep shut. I can cry a million times over on this board that I am the greatest living master of all time, that I have knowledge of the secret Infinity Butterfly Hands of LoHan Steals the Peach while Exiting the Cave form, and that I can beat up everyone on this board. Does that make those statements true? Not quite. If you feel you are good enough to criticize Grandmaster Chan Pui, then perhaps you should go out there and prove it. You do not even have to challenge him. Go challenge one of his students who hold the rank of sifu in his system. I am sure that there is bound to be at least one in your area. This is the last time I am going to say it, I am tired of having to repeat myself to you. From now on I will let the topic stand as it is. Either you put up or shut up. Otherwise, you will be like those practitioners of Shaolin-Do who claim that they have knowledge of “all styles of kungfu,” all talk and no play.

22

Key Essence

I do practice the Wah Lum that I learned from my former instructor and use a lot of the techniques to build the strengh,flexibility and coordinationn of my students, however i am primarily 7 * now. I would still love to meet with you and possubly work out if you are in my areaalways feel free to email me or visit.

“The key is to begin at the beginning;high level short cuts can only lead to dead end.”
“If You can’t be honest nothing can happen.”

23

you don’t need to know any kung fu

common sports medecine.

And I know the mantis stance. Thats enough.

[This message was edited by 8stepsifu on 03-26-01 at 09:32 PM.]

24

ok, I’m sorry

who am I to trust common sense and practicality, after all, this guy has been in magazines. :rolleyes:
I’ve seen him doing form and I respect him, but that particular stance has no use, but to look cool.

It’s a picture pose, nothing more. Don’t emulate it or you’ll hurt yourself. If someone sneezes from that position they will fall over.

How am I qualified? Here goes, I KNOW KUNG FU
and I can fight with it. I know what those weird movements in forms are for, and can put on the grappling gloves and do them on and apply them on unwilling opponents.

I know what mantis stance is for, and I know what things are for show. This stance is for show. It’s obvious.

btw, good for you for being a wannabe martial artist for sooo many years. To bad in all your years, you haven’t learned the difference from the public face fluff and whats real and actually works.

there are better ways to train flexibility than getting in a circus stance.

You don’t have to agree with me, do that stance for an hour a day and call me when you need your knees scoped :stuck_out_tongue:

25

I Agree…

Although you may think my opinion is biased because an 8 Step practitioner too… This stance seems utterly useless except to show off. Kung Fu wasn’t made to show off. I can vouch for 8StepSifu being good at Kung Fu, so there’s one. As Miyamoto Musashi says you should throw out useless techniques. Not to mention many others have said this too.

26

Enough.

Aparently it is common place among some of you to make gratuitous statements about VERY accomplished Grand Masters in systems you do not practice. If this is the case, which is evident from many of the posts about Master Chan.

This is a photograph. Nothing more.

Master Chan is more accomplished than most modern practitioners of Kung Fu in any form. That is a fact. Your skills, my skills, and anyone elses skills on this board have not reached the Grand Master level in any form. That is a fact. Show some respect, be a good teacher and offer some real advice about KF. Statements offering nothing do nothing except provoke emotional responses.

Average people do not do Kung Fu. I think we all can agree on that

27

Useless or Not!

“As Miyamoto Musashi says you should throw out useless techniques. Not to mention many others have said this too.”

Dont just post a quote without giving us within what context it was used. I am sure that the great master Musashi was referrring to combat as all true instructors will tell you the same thing whether it be Karate, Kung Fu or anyother art.

In the photo, Master P. Chan is posing/performing and nothing more. He wasnt in combat when this shot was taken.

Performance and combat are two very different things. I am sure all great masters/teachers and students practice or perform techniques that they know very well they wouldnt use in combat. It is just that performance.

One can not judge a persons fighting ability per se by their performance and the poses that they take in pictures.

Your telling me that other styles do not perform for entertainment and demostration. The breaking of bricks, boards, concrete and etc…Using Samuri swords to slice melons, apples and other items from the head of individuals to demonstrate their skill with sharps. And this is exactly that nothing more.

Can Master P. Chan fight?, I dont know i have never witnessed it, will he use such a stance in combat i dont know i never asked him and never will, Have i heard stories of him poking the hell out of people that disrespected him Yes! Have I heard stories of him shredding leather with his fingers? Yes!. All of these things take skill, experience and mastery of one’s self and art.

What he is demostrating is that through hardwork under his Sifu, The late GrandMaster Lee Kwan Shun and his elder Kung Fu brother, he has learned to work hard, preserver, and tolerate pain and learn discipline to learn the trademarks of his style and to manipulate the human body and become a hell of a martial artist before and during our time. His performance and accomplishments says it all. Whether if we agree he is a good person or not or what his intentions are is not for me to judge.

We all learn martial arts and train for different reasons. Some to fight, others for health, self-defense, lose weight, and etc…But, everything is relaly not about fighting…its about preserving an art, passing down that art…disciplining and learning about ourselves and our body/mind and etc..

You may think you know how to fight, but there is always someone better. One the street have the things that you train for i guarantee will not work the way you train for them. It is always different on the street, every circumstance is different.

Just practice and learn what interest you and what you THINK may work for you on the street when you have two-three attackers, one is grabbing your legs to pull you to the ground and the other one is attacking you with punches and all of a sudden a third comes out of the crowd and starts pounding you on the sides of tyour face? What then?

What is important is can you take a hit, not only one, but several?

and two is can you endure and continue to get up even though you’ve been knockeed down once or twice.

I have seen 8 step and i dont really know anything about it except what i saw while stopping by to see a class in San Francisco in the latter part of 1999 in the Sunset area.

But lets not be naive and think that it does not contain techniques or movements that are a little absurd or bizarre as well, most styles have these movements. The reason they are there could be many, who knows but to train to fight is a different type of training than training to demonstrate or perform to either attract students or show the beauty of the style.

" Moss Never Grows on a Rolling Stone"

28

stance

Wah lum is a combination of the tam tui system, it’s not a mantis stance. He is posing for a picture, get over it.

29

Thats what I’ve been saying all along!

“That particular stance has no use, but to look cool.”

“It’s a picture pose, nothing more.”

Master Chan is cool. I just got pissed because I wasn’t allowed to have an opinion by Mr. Inquisitor. I said that it was “worthless for combat” I’m sure most of you agree. I did NOT say Grandmaster Chan Poi is worthless for combat, that would be stupid. I can only hope to have that kind of balance and flexibility when I’m his age.

to sum up this whole damnn mess,

POST- What do you think?

8ss-“I think it’s bad for combat, but looks cool.”

Inquisitor- How dare you! You bastard, go fight to back it up, monkeybrains!

:mad:

It’s sunny outside, go play :cool:

30

Inquisitor,

Just to set the record straight, when I posted “OK, since it’s my Sifu in question I’ll have to throw in my 2 cents.” I was referring to Master Chan being my Sifu, not 8stepsifu.

Also, as far as that stance being “Worthless for combat, worthless for combat training” it’s my opinion not to rule out anything for combat usefullness. Even though it’s just a photo op stance it’s still makes for a difficult target, especially knowing that he (personally) can attack or retreat from that “sh*tty stance”. Just because you or I can utilize it effectively doesn’t mean it won’t work for him.

31

8stepsifu has 2 sets of standards…one that bends with the wind to suite his own needs…and another for everyone else.

By the way, the 8 stances pictured on the 8step.com web site are all incorrect.

That’s not how they were recorded or taught by 8 Step Grandmaster Wei-Xiao Tang.

32

Now that you mention it

8 step sifu’s posts do seem to share a common manic psychosis characterized by grandiose delusions of exceptional talent.