On another thread was made mention of the stance of Shi Zhengzhong.
First I want to clarify if it is indeed this stance that the conversation is about.
a higher stance
Another picture from his lanjie form.
This stance is similar except that it is higher up.
More importantly is that it is used for different occasions.
The very low stance being that type of takedown of controlling the leg and arm at the same time.
Thank you Tainan Mantis for the photos. The way John taught me… the back leg is at 45 degrees off of front leg, knees about a fist apart, front leg foot turned in. Differant from what I see here, I did see a photo of Li HongJie in the stance I described. More tight and with this back leg at a peculiar angle. Thanks for the thread.
sweet.
Tainan, from my limited experience w/ Pong Lai I have come to reason that this stance, in it’s higher/taller version, is sort of our general ‘neutral’ fighting stance.
As we transition into working single techniques out of drills and two person forms I’m working with this stance the most.
Also for free sparring.
Am I way off base?
oh, do you by chance have a pic of Master Shi in a 7 star posture?
similar to the well known pic of Master Kui.
thanks
Oso
This is my fav stance, just had to change slightly.
One of my students spent the summer in Taiwan. He came back using this jade ring stance in 18 Elders form. Before we used a Dengshan shi, I like this substitution with jade ring stance better.
So are you guys calling this your Yu Huan Bu (Jade Ring Stance)? We call this (ours is not as tight) Xiao Deng Shan Bu (Small Mountain Climbing Stance).
Just curious. Great pics!
Cheers
Jake 
yu shan…yea, I like it too. it’s something I’ve been utilizing as a fighting stance for years. Just trying to correlate.
Jake,
yea, I really liked the way it is used in your BYTT. What’s in a name? 
I may be way off base, a hazard of thinking for myself too much, but I feel there should be a fair amount of comfort in your stances.
Each person is unique so their stances should be slightly modified according to ability. However, this should only be done after intense training in the ‘proper’ way (for that style) and should happen naturally.
Bottom line for fighting is if you aren’t comfortable with your stances then you’re fighting yourself as well as your opponent.
BTW, there are pros and cons to each variation. Stabilizing the lead leg against a sweep will create a weak point somewhere else that can be exploited.
HLL, I agree completely.
For me this stance is very comfortable though a fair amount of leg strength is needed because of both knees being bent. We do some plyometric drills with this stance as well as static (isometric) stance training.
I personally weight both feet evenly in this stance and the ability to shift weight quickly from one to the other is paramount. This is, to me, a truly 3 dimensional stance. Quick movement front/back, left/right and up/down.
I posted this pic elsewhere for laughes but then got to looking at it.
notice the stance. actaully more like Jake’s version than the pong lai version.
Interesting but he’s just lunging, not actually settling into a stance while executing a technique.
And I’m not sure saying you posted a pic for laughs and that it looks like Jake’s stance will score you any points the next time you meet up with him. 
But we all know what you mean.
Ponglai Stance
I have the good fortune of seeing Tainan in action using these stances in person. It is indeed very inspiring. I have to agreed with Tainan that they are for different purposes. But there is a correlation between them.
I basically consider both of them Xiao Shi (minor stance). The taller stance is somewhat like the 7 stars “middle stance”. The lower one is pretty much the norm for most PM. I have seen pictures of Zhang De Kuai doing both stances. So clearly the height issue isn’t about age. It is more about the function IMHO. Also there are subtle differences between GM Zhang and Shrfu Shr’s stances, most notably in the taller stance. There is a very subtle hint of White Crane mechanics in Shrfu Shr’s taller stance. Incidently, the taller stance in the picture is used as a platform for issuing an one inch type of punch. This is very unique to Mimen Tanglang. Sometimes I have to wonder could there have been a real southern roots in northern Tanglang?
This is indeed a great thread on Ponglai Stance and thanks for sharing that Tainan.
Mantis108
LOL, He is I, circa 1984
my thoughts on this stance from up thread were that it’s not a stance you necessarily ‘settle in’ to. (not mocking your word usage) but a good neutral fighting stane.
I’m lunging, but out of the stance forward.
Sometimes I have to wonder could there have been a real southern roots in northern Tanglang?
mind that I’ve only seen the barest bit of mimen from pong lai but I wonder at a similarity to wing chun myself. I also studied a southern five animal system called lung shou pai which had similar movement inside the doors…just musing on my part, I still have much to learn.
Ha! You’ll look like that again Oso, just keep working out. :rolleyes:
Let me get this straight, you were stationary in this stance before you lunged?
I’m thinking no, which would just make this a transition that just looks like the stance in discussion. Great visual though. It helps to see the leg positions we’re talking about.
Just to clarify, to me:
a stance is a rooting position. Doesn’t matter how quickly you move in and out of it, it’s stationary for the time needed to issue the power needed to execute the technique either offensive or defensive.
a transition is a stepping position. Used for setting up a technique where max power is not required. Usually the power is generated at the point where you settle into (root) the stance.
Ha! You’ll look like that again Oso, just keep working out.
Let me get this straight, you were stationary in this stance before you lunged?
basically, yes.
but, I need to codify my definitions of ‘stance’ and ‘transitioning’ before I reply further.
I don’t disagree with you…just a slightly different angle I think.
I am just showing some variety here guys.
I will show more later.
The stances are not rigidly set and depend on the person as well as the intent in the particluar move.
As for the names I go with Jake.
The minor hill climbing stance.
But other schools use a different name and there can be confusion as my Shifu stdied with different masters who all use different terminology.
So my understanding of jade ring is a motion, not a single posture.
It can be seen in the drill called “jade ring step jade ring hands”
About the pic of the high up stance it is like 108 says middle.
But when I learned it he also called it bu ding bu ba.
Somethin like, “not nail not eight(as in the chinese character).”
I agree with the motion comment. I hope none of you would start out a fight in a stance such as Jade Ring, or Xiao Deng Shan Bu, or Cold Rooster, or Deng Shan Bu…etc. In our system, Xiao Deng Shan Bu is used to take someone down over your knee (essetnially a fancy trip). I would not be caught dead in that stance unless I was in contact with my opponent some way or another.
Just my cents…if I have any
Jake:D
Hey, my teacher teaches Jade Ring footwork and striking in his mantis too. Do any of you guys do a jade ring float of mass?