tiger riding stance/stance positioning

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
1

Hey people.

Right. Im interested in any information about the tiger riding stance/stances in general. Since being on the forum and seeing many different videos and images of mantis boxing I have been perplexed about this stance. Take a look at the pics

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/fabian.gif

http://www.rochesterkungfu.com/images/sm-low-kwan-yu.jpg

Both are northern 7* mantis, yet the stances are tottally different. Can I please have your thoughts on this. I thought that northern styles were generaly ‘higher’, or is this a ignorant misconception. What are your opinions on the depth/width of stances like this.
I of the opinion that it shouldn’t be really deep as its not exactly used as a power generating stance like the horse or hill climbing. I cant see any benefits of going so low? The forward foot is reserved for kicking, so a ‘higher positioning’ would suit this stance better.

Im really confused as to why you can have such a difference in body positioning when both come from the same style.

craig

2

The guy in the first pic is showing off his leg strength and would never fight like that while the guy in the second pic is getting ready to tear you a new one.

3

One of the 13 Taibo is called “pulling onion off the dry ground”. To train this:

Step 1: If you can drop down like this and allow your hip to touch the lower part of your leg and repeat it many times then you have build enough strength, flexibility, and balance to continue.

Step 2: Now when you drop down, keep your front leg off the ground and parallel to the ground. Repeat just like you did in step 1.

4

They both look like xubu (empty stance) to me. Kuahu-shi (tiger-straddling stance) looks more like a 40-60 stance with the body facing more to the side. The benefit of going low is to train the strength and flexibility.

My shifu told me 13 Taibao was a form of “aida-gong” (training in receiving hits), though I haven’t trained in it myself. Does it also include training exercises like that? Could you describe a couple of them if you have time? Thanks.

5

monkey foot,

as Ouji said they are in a different context.
A lot of people get confused when talking about stances.

the guy in the first picture is performing an extremly low stance which as youknowwho said takes incrediable leg strength, but its actual application is called DIAO LOU, where you seize your opponents arm and continue his motion pulling thier face to the ground, so the pose is actually after the technique is performed to to fight from.

The second pic is to show the characteristics of his style but neither are fighting positions.
hope this helps

6

This is our empty stance, we do in a higher way. The style I did before emphasized on very low stance work. It did make your legs very strong. Since then, I have lost a lot of this leg strength, but my footwork is much faster.

7

13 Taibao train for flexibility, strength, and balance. It can enhance your "ability"and make your moves work better. The following clip contains all the 13 Taiabo. The 1st move is the one that I was talking about. Since her leg was not strong enough to go all the way down to the ground and end with empty stance. she just moves into next move from a gloden roaster stance.

http://johnswang.com/13TB.wmv

8

13 Taibao train for flexibility, balance, and strength. Here are few pictures. “Pulling onion off hard ground” is not in it.

9

Interesting, thanks. Do you just hold those positions or are there accompanying movements? Looks a little like the “Moving Arhat” exercises.

10

Onyomi, in 8 step, they are static postures przcticed to promote streength, flexability, agility and balance. Try them starting at a minute and work up from there. In SF we were holding them for 15 minutes! extremly diffucult indeed

FLYING SPARROW (FAI YEN)
ARMS EXTENDED BACKWARDS , ONE LEG FIRMLY ROOTED,
KNEE LOCKED , OTHER LEG RAISED BEHIND SO BODY FORMS A
STRIAGHT LINE , HEAD LOOKING FORWARD .

GRABBING SPARROW ( SHI YEN )
SAME AS FLYING SPARROW , EXCEPT HANDS GRAB FORWARD AND
TO THE SIDES

SPLITTING SPARROW ( GI YEN )
FEET SPREAD FAR APART , BEND AT WAIST , BODY IS PARALLEL
WITH GROUND,ARMS EXTENDED BACKWARDS HEAD STRAIGHT

BUDDAH LOOKS AT THE MOON ( WAN YAU )
CROSS ONE LEG OVER THE OTHER , KEEP KNEES LOCKED ONE HAND
TOUCHES GROUND THE OTHER EXTENDES TOWARD THE SKY, TURN
HEAD TOWARDS THE EXTENDED HAND

BUDDAH LOOKS AT THE SUN ( LOU HAN )
FEET SHOULDER WIDTH APART , EXTEND HANDS TOWARDS SKY
HANDS FLAT , PALMS FACING UPWARD WITH FINGERS POINTING
TO EACH OTHER

GRABBING HORSE ( SHI MA )
FEET WIDER THAN SHOULDER WITH , SQUAT SO LEGS ARE
PARALLEL WITH GROUND , ARMS EXTENDED TO THE SIDES GRAB
AND PULL IN SWIFTLY

SHOOT THE TIGER ( SHO TU HUNG )
FEET SHOULDER WIDTH APART, ARMS EXTENDED FORWARD BEND
TILL LEGS ARE PARALLEL WITH GROUND , BACK STAIGHT

SINGLE LEG ( HAN CHI )
LIFT ONE LEG UP UNTIL PARALLEL WITH GROUND , BEND AT THE
KNEE HOOKING FOOT INWARD , ONE HAND POINTING DOWN ONE
HAND EXTENDED TOWARDS SKY , FISTS CLENCHED

11

Each one can be done both “static” and “dymantic”. You can even hold bricks on both hands when you do it.

12

Thanks for the info. everybody. :slight_smile:

13

yea I second that people, thankyou very much for the initial info and the remaining discussion.

Earthdragon

The second pic is to show the characteristics of his style but neither are fighting positions.

I dont understand this, I thought that the second picture WAS a fighting position (mantis catches the cicarda). It would be a finishing position after the player has grappled the arm and pulled the opponent down towards him with the forward foot ready to kick out at the shinbone/knee cap.

craig

14

yea I second that people, thankyou very much for the initial info and the remaining discussion.

Earthdragon

The second pic is to show the characteristics of his style but neither are fighting positions.

I dont understand this, I thought that the second picture WAS a fighting position (mantis catches the cicarda). It would be a finishing position after the player has grappled the arm and pulled the opponent down towards him with the forward foot ready to kick out at the shinbone/knee cap.

craig

15

monkeyfoot,

Perhaps I did not explain coprrectly. The postures shown are applications, and postures taken after their application, not fighting stances.

This is not to be confused with after the fight has ended or the application has been performed. is that clearer? LOl maybe not after reading my own post
i.e

OK a tiger about to trounce is the pre fighting posture, paws in the air is the fight and the post fight posture would be static. after defeat.

Sometimes people ask how can you fight form a horse stance? you cant but the posture has a application and it is how you end up after it has been done.. hope that helps

16

yea cheers for that earthdragon, I now understand where you were coming from

good stuff

craig

17

The second picture is Huang Han Xun’s teacher, Luo Guangyu, isn’t it? That’s the “zhaopai” (signature) stance of PM, Praying Mantis Catches Cicada. It is the culmination of the twelve character principles as it can lead to, follow or include any of them. It’s not a fighting stance in the sense that you wouldn’t adopt it to spar, but it is in the sense that it implies a lot of the most important attacking methods of PM. That’s why it’s the “signature” position that ends many PM forms and that many PM sifus get their picture taken in.

18

That’s Lou Guangyu. The empty stance in PM usually is used for retreating. PM saying said, You Should be able to hop forward by 10 feet into “monkey stance - most weight on the front leg”, and you should also be able to hop back 8 feet into “empty stance - most weight on the back leg”.

PM guys like to

  • Right punch to your belly,
  • Right back fist to your face,
  • Right kick to your nuts. then
  • Hop back into right “empty stance”.

PM guys believe that if you are fast enough to get away from this 3 striking combo then they had better “run like hell”.

19

Set that up with left punch to face.

This is the quote from Brendan Lai? Can you tell us about your time with him?

regards,
N.

20

Yea thats a classic combo as showcased in Ey low. A player can simply shoot off the strikes or grapple with the backfist.

I agree, there is usually a warding punch before the ‘drilling fist’ in the stomach. I am also very fond of the ‘warding punch, drilling fist, uppercutting elbow, hammer fist’ as shown in ‘Daw kwan kuen’. Its a nice way to go from long range to close range…and the power from the elbow as you come up from a horse stance…pheeewwww

craig