The secret to most Chinese martial arts is that it has to have a sense of secrecy in order for it to thrive. Since most of my experience with Chinese martial arts comes from Wing Chun, I will use Wing Chun as an example. I’ve been studying Wing Chun for over 10 years. Every Wing Chun school that I have been too, gives off an atmosphere that their Wing Chun is better or more original or more traditional or more superior. In a sense, it is more secretive and only taught to loyal students or indoor disciples. The Sifu’s I have encountered subconsciously re-enforces that he will share this secret with all us if we remain loyal to him and his lineage. For the past 10 years, I’ve never learned anything I would consider to be “secret, original, traditional or superior ”Wing Chun." Is it because I wasn’t a loyal student? Is it because I didn’t pay fees? Not true at all. I’ve remained loyal and paid all my fees. I did things in class and outside of class that was not even related to Wing Chun for all my Sifu’s. I’ve even posted comments on martial art forums for them even though I didn’t agree with what they wanted me to say to the internet public. Till this day, I still have not learned the secret Wing Chun that my all Sifu’s subconsciously portrays in their school. The only secret that I have learned over this 10 year experience is that, if someday, I decide to teach Wing Chun and want to make money and retain students, I have to do what these Sifu’s did to me and that is to keep all students wandering that there is a “secret, original, traditional or superior” Wing Chun; and if they want to learn it; they will have to remain loyal and pay their fees over a long period of time. This is just my personal experience. Sorry if I offended anyone. All thoughts are welcomed.
You are in the wrong school, my friend.
While an instructor has every right to make money to earn his living, if his motivation is money and control, he will NEVER teach you right.
My IYTC teacher (Wei) and my KL22 teacher (Leung) never ever talk to me about money. They are alwys keen to see me and show me things. Yes, I give them red pockets, but just token amounts to show appreciations.
Master Wan of Practical Wing Chun HK, even tho he’s not my teacher, and he knew I do Kulo, still shared his knowledge and never charged me a cent! (it gets complicated, I can buy him dinner or cook him a roast, but I can’t give him red pockets as he is not my Sifu.)
My advice, the best teachers are not movitated by money. Be honest with them, be sincere, be honourable, be true; and they will teach you things unreservedly. But if you has an ounce of deceitfulness in you heart, they will see through and you will get nothing.
No knowledge is worth sacrificing your integrity for.
Cheers.
Another example: a doctor who’s motivation is to help people will still earn a decent living. A doctor’s who’s motivation is to cheat as much money out of his clients as he can, may lead a short term gain, but karma will eventually catch up with him.
If you ever want to open a school, what type of Sifu would you like to be? Your choice, your karma.
I’ve often wondered why this is… I’ve come to the conclusion that no one is hiding secrets. They just don’t really know their system that well so they hide behind the “secret” knowledge that they haven’t really acquired.
At least in the Ip Man clans, there does seem to be an ongoing ‘schism’ if you will umungst the houses. Once hot, now just mostly left alone. This has lead to alot of that ‘original’ ‘traditional’ ‘secret’ or privilaged house stuff. I’m enjoying the exposure and lessons of non Hong Kong VT from an anthropological perspective as it tells much about the curious nature of Ip Man VT ,it’s houses and our secret, superior ways and differences.
I wonder, do the non HK VT styles have variations and politics of ‘original’ and ‘superior’ as well?The sharing and wide ability to observe and learn from each other is the best thing to keep the VT family together and dispell secrets.
[QUOTE=jonlee;1164483]The secret to most Chinese martial arts is that it has to have a sense of secrecy in order for it to thrive.[/QUOTE]
Really? Not so much these days I think because many new students tend to be able to ‘see’ if what is happening in front of them is real or not. As for those who can’t, then find a friend who can and don’t be drawn into all this ‘secrecy’ cr4p!
[QUOTE=jonlee;1164483]The only secret that I have learned over this 10 year experience is that, if someday, I decide to teach Wing Chun and want to make money and retain students, I have to do what these Sifu’s did to me and that is to keep all students wandering that there is a “secret, original, traditional or superior” Wing Chun; and if they want to learn it; they will have to remain loyal and pay their fees over a long period of time. This is just my personal experience. Sorry if I offended anyone. All thoughts are welcomed.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, if you decide to teach I would hope that your teacher supports you and you don’t end up just doing it because you think you can! Secondly, you have already adopted a business mind to your plans, which imho is so very wrong and has no place in Wing Chun teaching.
The word I have in mind is ‘profit’ and if that is your driving force then good luck to you. It works for the more commercial Martial Arts, but I have always held the belief that Wing Chun is a family based system, and that is really how we should maintain it. Business and family is not a good mix FME and personally I cringe at the thought of a Sifu taking money from students over such long periods of time.
I have actually trained with these guys, some with more than 10 years paying fees and learning, and they are ‘empty’. Very happy, but empty all the same.
My Sifu used to say “An individual can not ‘decide’ that they want to learn Wing Chun, Wing Chun decides who she herself wants to learn lol!” he then taught me a secret handshake with tea ceremony and led me through a golden doorway to where I trained with ‘dead people’ until I lost my marbles… 
:D:D
There are no secrets to kung fu only hard work.
If that is the way your sifu teaches, then leave his school. Anyone who tells you about secrets in Wing Chun is a scammer. My sifu was discussing this exact same topic a few weeks ago. Basically he said that the only “secret” in Wing Chun is to drill the basics over and over again until it becomes as natural for you as walking and breathing. At the most advanced level, there is no technique. Your body simply reacts by covering your centerline, attacking his centerline, having a solid understanding of distance and timing. These are concepts you learn within the first few days of training. Some students are in a hurry to learn Biu Jee when what they don’t understand is that if they don’t have the basics down, nothing will work at all.
The secret…
There is no magical mythical text book dogma that will make u better. The only thing that will is dedication and self discipline. And i didnt even charge for that tid bit of knowledge. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1164498]The secret…
There is no magical mythical text book dogma that will make u better. The only thing that will is dedication and self discipline. And i didnt even charge for that tid bit of knowledge. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
No secrets from a good sifu. My Fong sifu explains things clearly in seminars for students at his Tucson school. Things may seem obtuse because it takes time for the skills to take hold.
One needs some uncommon sense at times.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1164494]My Sifu used to say “An individual can not ‘decide’ that they want to learn Wing Chun, Wing Chun decides who she herself wants to learn lol!” [/QUOTE]
i completely agree. James cama sifu once mentioned to me that the ancestors protect the system, they choose whom to give it out to, and if they decide to, they will help one along his/her journey to get understanding of the system. After spending over 20 years in wing chun and teaching for the last 15, i have to agree. Even though I don’t hold back anything when teaching a student, not all my students leave with the complete understanding of wing chun. I can teach and prech until I am blue, but the student will not understand until he/she is ready.
I don’t like to teach much because im still learning but I often show my students advanced techniques depending on the situation. I wouldn’t be teaching Biu Jee to someone just starting out but I do show some things to certain people based on the situation we are in. I am teaching a new woman who wanted to know some no nonsense self defense and I incorporated some more advanced stuff with her. I don’t believe in secrets I teach a form and the application of the movements more or less at the same time. If someone asks about a specific situation we usually talk about it as a class at length and go through what ever methods we feel are best regardless of how advanced the techniques may be. I was teaching a couple guys the dummy form last night one is a bit behind the others. I told him to do as the others were and he asked if he should I told him why not your never going to stop practicing this. If you forget this by next class it’s no big deal and I will show you again eventually you will get it. I believe it should be taught at a persons own speed a persons rank doesn’t mean much to me. If they learn a form or technique and remember it properly why not advance them a bit. Most of the guys I help train know more than they need to for their current level I don’t hold them back and they know where they need work. I dislike ranks your skill has little to do with a colored sash.
I spent many years with a sifu who had this kind of mystical, secretive thinking. Later I changed schools and trained under a sifu who was incredibly clear, logical and open with his knowledge. It was like a breath of fresh air.
As others have stated, the only secret is hard work and time spent developing one’s skill.
[QUOTE=WingChunABQ;1164525]the only secret is hard work and time spent developing one’s skill.[/QUOTE]
It’s much more complicate than that. The secret is “how to train?” and “what to look for?” You can train hard and spend a lot of time but if you don’t know the proper training method, you won’t be able to reach to your goal. Let’s use the “human flag” training as an example.
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9490/humanflag.jpg
The secret of this training is to
- “push” on the bottom hand and “pull” on the upper hand.
- start with your most powerful arm on the bottom.
- start with your body to be 30 degree upward and gradulate change into 45 degree upward, and then to make your body to be parallel to the ground.
After you have known those “secret”, it doesn’t worth a penny. But if you don’t know it, you will feel lost in your training. Without following these simple guidelines, it’s very hard to even lift yourself up in the air. “Hard” training is not the same as “smart” training and that’s why we all need teachers.
TCMA is like to find the right key to open the right lock. If the key is wrong, the lock won’t open. Of course you can use hammer to smash that lock. It just need more brute force.
For example, what the best counter for a front bear hug? Some guy may say that his opponent’s bear hug is so strong that he can’t break it. Why do you want to break his powerful arms for? That’s like to use a hammer to smash the lock and force it to open. If you are stronger than your opponent, it may work. If not, it won’t.
The “secret” of the TCMA is “Where’s the right key to open this lock?”
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1164532]
“Hard” training is not the same as “smart” training and that’s why we all need teachers.[/QUOTE]
Good point, but it’s also a given.
The problem is when martial arts teachers try to pass themselves off as gurus, masters of spiritual knowledge. Worse is when they treat their martial arts a secret, occultish knowledge. That is straight up snake oil.
The secret to Wing Chun
[QUOTE=jonlee;1164483]The secret to most Chinese martial arts is that it has to have a sense of secrecy in order for it to thrive. Since most of my experience with Chinese martial arts comes from Wing Chun, I will use Wing Chun as an example. I’ve been studying Wing Chun for over 10 years. Every Wing Chun school that I have been too, gives off an atmosphere that their Wing Chun is better or more original or more traditional or more superior. In a sense, it is more secretive and only taught to loyal students or indoor disciples. The Sifu’s I have encountered subconsciously re-enforces that he will share this secret with all us if we remain loyal to him and his lineage. For the past 10 years, I’ve never learned anything I would consider to be “secret, original, traditional or superior ”Wing Chun." Is it because I wasn’t a loyal student? Is it because I didn’t pay fees? Not true at all. I’ve remained loyal and paid all my fees. I did things in class and outside of class that was not even related to Wing Chun for all my Sifu’s. I’ve even posted comments on martial art forums for them even though I didn’t agree with what they wanted me to say to the internet public. Till this day, I still have not learned the secret Wing Chun that my all Sifu’s subconsciously portrays in their school. The only secret that I have learned over this 10 year experience is that, if someday, I decide to teach Wing Chun and want to make money and retain students, I have to do what these Sifu’s did to me and that is to keep all students wandering that there is a “secret, original, traditional or superior” Wing Chun; and if they want to learn it; they will have to remain loyal and pay their fees over a long period of time. This is just my personal experience. Sorry if I offended anyone. All thoughts are welcomed.[/QUOTE]
There is no secret to wing chun , it ’ s just pure learning , training and making yourself better as times goes by for you . Most importantly being able to make it useful for you in a situation where self defense is the main concern . Your sifu was just pulling your legs , but jonlee since you already spent 10 years of you life with that sifu , are you a sifu now ? Well your sifu should be able to make his own decision if you can become a sifu or not under him . Jonlee PM if you can .
JonLee, these guys are yanking your leg. There are secrets in Wing Chun, but you only learn them after you have proven yourself over the years. Most never get to learn them. The reason they stay secret is because of some feeling of loyalty or tradition, but I am not so driven. I will do anything for money. I know all the secrets of Wing Chun. All of them. And for a price I will make them all known to you, but only one at a time. However, I must be convinced that you are worthy and serious about your Wing Chun. Send me large sums of money every month until I know for certain and I will then teach you the secrets. And yes, I can teach them over the internet. I am sure these guys will comment, but pay them no mind.
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;1164575]JonLee, these guys are yanking your leg. There are secrets in Wing Chun, but you only learn them after you have proven yourself over the years. Most never get to learn them. The reason they stay secret is because of some feeling of loyalty or tradition, but I am not so driven. I will do anything for money. I know all the secrets of Wing Chun. All of them. And for a price I will make them all known to you, but only one at a time. However, I must be convinced that you are worthy and serious about your Wing Chun. Send me large sums of money every month until I know for certain and I will then teach you the secrets. And yes, I can teach them over the internet. I am sure these guys will comment, but pay them no mind.[/QUOTE]
Yes o master of the mysterious arts.No longer do I want to wet myself when threatened at the beach.You have convinced me imortality is only a moneyorder away. I’ll gamble a stamp and get your free book without obligation and without delay!!!
[QUOTE=Shang-Chi;1164490]I’ve often wondered why this is… I’ve come to the conclusion that no one is hiding secrets. They just don’t really know their system that well so they hide behind the “secret” knowledge that they haven’t really acquired.[/QUOTE]
These days, I am starting to agree with your statement. My experience is mostly with TWC, but a few fellow Wing Chun practitioners out there say that Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun is even more secretive.