Serpent had a good idea. Why don’t some of you SD pracs. let us in on your basic fighting techniques:
Under what situations do you move from one range to another?
For a knockout, do you generally prefer a single strike or multiple strikes?
Do you have any advice for dealing with a knife fighter?
How would you deal with a Thai Boxer? A western Boxer?
Name your 5 personal most reliable empty-handed techniques.
How do you feel about attacking the front gate versus the side gate?
Under what circumstances will you attempt a throw?
Since you practice in bare feet, what adjustments do you make in order to express your art with shoes on?
These are just some suggestions. I’m going to turn the thread over to you guys and hopefully it will make for a good read later. I’m always interested in how different styles deal with different situations.
Although there woudl be some common denominators, the answers to these questions would depend as much on personal fighting styles as it would SD. In other words, my teacher would probably answer these questions somewhat differntly then I would as would themeecer, or BentMonk, Bluesman, shaolinarab, SD, etc. We are given differnt techniques to explore put the choice from these techniques is often a personal one:
I try to move to 0 range as quickly as possible. I want to crowd my opponent and stick to then so I can use conter-punches and low kicks to drop them. I will, however, move to kicking range in hopes of baiting them inside in hopes that they will not only play my game, but they will feel like they chose to move inside. I will often kick into their guard in hopes that they will attempt to counter-attack and leave themselves open in the process. If I am fighting in this mode, my lateral steps are larger. When I’m inside my steps are smaller and I rely more on hip and waist rotation to evade techniques.
As many as it takes.
Chances are that you will get cut if you deal with a knife fighter. Limiting the area that you expose is the key.
I’ve never fought a Thai Boxer. They appear to be equally strong at the outside and inside range. I suppose I would work on evasiveness and mobilty and not allow then to close the distance to where the clinch and knees and elbosw are effective. I would keep my hands up and elbow in against a western boxer and try to use lower kicks to his legs while minimizing their reach.
Pi Chuan, Tsuan Chuan, Peng Chuan, Pao Chuan Heng Chuan (my personal five most effective empty hand techniques)
I’ll attack what is open. I prefer to attack one’s centerline, but depending on what targets they present I’ll either rely on quick punches toi open the door or I’ll try to flank my opponent with footwork to open up their guard.
I dont’ try to throw often, but I will attempt foot sweeps if one places too much weight on their front foot. If my opponent over etends a punch or kick, then I have been known to use a basic hip toss in sparring.
I practice in shoes. When I practiced barefoot I was taught to turn my toes back on front and round kicks and focus on the ball of the foot. This is more difficult in shoes plus the added stability and padding in shoes allows one to focus on the top of the foot for front and round kicks.
These answers are off the cuff and bare given the format. I’d be glad to meet with anyone and talk about fighting theories in person.
Unfortunately I cannot speak representatively for all other SD schools in regards to some of your questions. I can however offer what I show my students.
Concerning shoes - I have my students train both with and without shoes. I have experience with teaching gymnastics formally, and I try to incorporate that into my martial art program. It’s very dangerous to tumble seriously while wearing shoes, so that could be a safety issue for one. As for it being a possible taboo, I can’t say, as my teacher has always worn shoes more than not. From spring through summer we usually get outside to train and then shoes are mandatory.
The type of shoe is versatile, everything from tennis shoes, to the little ‘kung fu’ shoes that are popular.
Are we going to take off our shoes in a situation, heck no. The sole of a shoe is harder than my foot, and as such can become a nice weapon. I teach my students to brace the bottom of their shoes for impact. In barefeet a front kick using the ball of the foot with the toes peeled back is proper, but when a shoe is added then you would want to ‘point’ the toes inside the shoe. This has the effect of ‘flattening’ out the sole of the shoe and make it more rigid for a strike. Also, the tread on the shoe can leave some ‘skid marks’ on someone, even through your average blue jean attire, try raking a shin with some good hiking boots on:D
Also, shoes can provide some extra dimension to our practice, with added weight, mild elevation from the ground (the thickness of the sole0 and ankle supprt. So I have all my students practice their forms with shoes on, I feel that it adds to their training.
The inverse is true as well, if your training in shoes of whatever design, would it be worthwhile to express what you do in barefeet?
Note: Some of the terms used in your questions may be interpreted differently.
Range ( inreference to distance from an opponent): Me personally, I always stay at about 1.25 distance (kick and a 1/4) until i am ready to throw an attack. This includes when on the defensive, after an initial attack from my opponent, I will move that that distance so that I control the tempo of the fight.
Unless you get really lucky, single strike KO’s don’t happen unless its a sucker punch or a weighted glove. Therefore, multiple strikes are needed IMO. At zero distance, going the the KO, you should hit as fast and as hard and as many times as you can. When (of If) they fall, you shouldn’t be able to tell if it was strike 1 or 15 that did the job.
Empty hand vs. knife: Ignore the knife. It can’t hurt you, only the hand holding it can. If you concentrate on the weapon, you will ignore to many other things. So, go offensive and try to imobilize the hand or wait till an attack is made and do you best to block it. Best advice, Run!!! It isn’t worth it.
Thai boxer: Never been in a match agaiinst one before but I would imagine that I would do my best to stay out of the range of the leg kicks (****, that has to hurt) and then work my way inside, easier to block the knees and elbows and work my magic.
Boxer: Keep them at my prefered 1.25 distance and kick the doo-doo out of them if they got any closer. No way that I could go hand to hand with them.
Front punch 2.Front kick 3. Front smash 4. invert kick to groin 5. Front kick (I used it twice, I like it so much)
Not sure about the gate reference, is this as in to the opponent body open head on vs. from a side stance (ony one side exposed)
Only when i am stuck to my opponent will I try to throw them or perhaps sweep the leg. IMO, to throw, you have to get pretty darned close to someone and I would prefer not to get that close. Too many chances for mistake.
8.No adjustment. We do it in our bare feet because Master Sin first started teaching in Ky and no one had any shoes…
Attack the hand and arm, not the weapon. Limit my exposure.
Thai boxers are renowned for toughness and strength. I have no choice but to fight in his range, but would attempt some sort of vital area strike. ie: eyes, throat, temple, etc. I would have no choice but to box a boxer and hope I was stronger and faster.
Right jab, Left jab, left cross, upper-cut, rising elbow.
I immediately attack the center line, hopefully forcing my opponent to play my game.
I only attempt a throw if my attacker is more off balance than me, which is rare. I grab, pull, and climb, pummeling with fist, elbow, or knee as I go.
I wear shoes when I train, and throw knees instead of kicks. No adjustment required.
I train and condition very hard. My goal is to keep a real confrontation as short and simple as possible. In reality I would probably land one or two shots before being hit with a counter. Surprise is my best weapon, given the fact that in street clothes I look like a good victim. My hope is to punch, elbow, or knee hard enough to be able to get away. I suck at tournament sparring. I have a blast doing it though. JP has seen this. In my last tournament match I ate quite a few kicks, but landed several punches to my opponents head. The fight ended with my hand clutching the guys wind pipe. He won in the gym, but would’ve died in the street. I’d rather win on the street any day. There’s my two cents. Peace.
I have your fight on tape. I loved the surprise in the guys face when you hit him square in the face. You could see that he realized it was a mistake to think this was going to be an easy win.
I didn’t realize that you were a Tool fan too. More to you then meets the eye.
Judge Pen: a one-punch knockout would be to clear a big path and take a powerful swing. A multiple punch knockout would be to use faster, less powerful strikes and rely on the effect of bouncing the brain around inside the skull. Many styles will actually emphasize one or the other or both.
Evad: Yes, I do train some without shoes as well as with shoes. I’m thinking of balance considerations and the details of kicking with the toe, which were mentioned.
Skummer: LOL, I’m sure we all got a kick out of that (I did). However hopefully we’ve got the humor out of our systems now and can focus on the subject matter.
Golden Tiger: I like the front kick too. I prefer the thrusting variety with the heel or whole foot making contact. For the invert kick, is that like a twisting kick? If so I’m suprised to see it on your list of basic techniques.
For the gates, front gate means approach them directly and side gate means maneuvering to out flank the opponent and entering from their side, usually in combination with a controlling hand technique OR doing this while they are stuck in a committed motion like some kicks.
BentMonk: Looks like you have a solid awareness of your abilities and limitations. That’s good to see. We can’t all be carbon copies of one another.
JP - I’d be lying if I said I didn’t get a kick out of his shocked expression myself. It works for me if people want to underestimate me though. A Perfect Circle is playing here Nov. 29. I can’t wait. I wish Tool would play here again, missed 'em last time.
CSN - Since I’m a natuarl smart azz myself, go ahead and crack the joke. Trust me, I’ve had 12 years of school, and 34 years of living, my skin is pretty thick where humor is concerned.
I didn’t mean a joke - although it’s easy enough to do that.
What I meant was that if you’re often less balanced than you’re opponents, you’re probably in trouble. If you’re rarely able to break your opponent’s balance, that’s definitely something to work on. But the way you phrased it made it sound as if you’re constantly about to fall over, and I hope we all agree that would be about the worst possible trait for an MA to have.
CSN - My balance when I’m stationary sucks. While I’m moving is another story however. If I get a hold of my opponent I can use my strength and body weight to my advantage pretty well. I am constantly working on ways to improve my balance. I have a thread on here that addresses this issue to the Judo and BJJ guys. I’ve gotten some really good advice and training techniques. The phrasing of my original post was a joke on myself.
Originally posted by fa_jing Judge Pen: a one-punch knockout would be to clear a big path and take a powerful swing. A multiple punch knockout would be to use faster, less powerful strikes and rely on the effect of bouncing the brain around inside the skull. Many styles will actually emphasize one or the other or both.
I try to punch hard and fast. I always throw multiple combinations so I don’t rely on a one punch knockout.
When I’m working out with Denzel, my steadiest training partner, I often find myself trying to overpower him with my size and weight. Crafty SOB that he is, he usually just gets out from under me and tells me “Stop leaning on me! I’m holding you up.”
Invert kick: If we are side to side my left, your right, imagine a kick where I kick to your stomach or groin striking with the ball of my left foot. Leg pivots at the hip socket, in essence making it horizontal and then striking out . Very effective and fast.
I normally stay out of range moving left and right. If I see a broad opening I will dart in to attack. I prefer to attack on the defensive.
I don’t train ‘knock outs,’ I train ‘cause as much damage’ as fast as I can and remove myself from the situation. If I was actually going for a knock out I would prefer to do it with multiple strikes versus a punch intended to knock a person out. The latter one is more risky than the former one, in my opinion.
I like the other person’s comment. Run. If you can’t run or if the guy was stepping to you and needed the smack down I would first off realize that my hands will get cut. Better them than my chest or head. We do have some techniques and short forms that deal with a knife attacker. Either kicking the arm and hand that holds the weapon, (only when they are not in close range, in case you miss) or waiting for the attack and blocking the arm while you evade with your body. (Easier to show than to explain on here)
Thai boxer? Never sparred one of those but can admire their invulnerable shins. I am still advancing in my iron shin training but eventually would block their low kicks with my own shin. Western boxer? Do my best to keep him out of close range, use my feet a lot. This might possibly be a rare case where I would use a throw.
1st favorite is the automatic groin kick, I just love to see high kickers. 2. Side kick, this works well for me, I have good timing with it and can stick it in their ribs as they move to attack. 3.
I prefer the side gate. I like to corner a lot and evade the attacks, then come in from their blind side.
Don’t use throws that much. I will use a sweep and normally do it from an advancing position from medium range. I will also use it anytime someone allows me to grab their kicking leg.
I train both in bare feet and shoes. I really don’t have to make an adjustment since I am comfortable in both. Or I should say my body naturally makes the adjustments.
I try to move to 0 range as quickly as possible. I want to crowd my opponent and stick to then so I can use conter-punches and low kicks to drop them. I will, however, move to kicking range in hopes of baiting them inside in hopes that they will not only play my game, but they will feel like they chose to move inside. I will often kick into their guard in hopes that they will attempt to counter-attack and leave themselves open in the process. If I am fighting in this mode, my lateral steps are larger. When I’m inside my steps are smaller and I rely more on hip and waist rotation to evade techniques.
Since there is so much negativity towards SD guys, I wanted to say that this sounds like a good overall strategy. I’ve seen this to be effective fighting. Thanks JP for that insight.
As many as it takes.
