Originally posted by Golden Tiger Invert kick: If we are side to side my left, your right, imagine a kick where I kick to your stomach or groin striking with the ball of my left foot. Leg pivots at the hip socket, in essence making it horizontal and then striking out . Very effective and fast.
How is this a bread and butter technique? Seems that it would require considerable set-up. BTW I know this kick from TKD, where it is used as a deceptive kick…as well it is a kick in the Wing Chun system, but is only used in one special situation that I can think of.
Originally posted by themeecer
[B]1) I normally stay out of range moving left and right. If I see a broad opening I will dart in to attack. I prefer to attack on the defensive.
I don’t train ‘knock outs,’ I train ‘cause as much damage’ as fast as I can and remove myself from the situation. If I was actually going for a knock out I would prefer to do it with multiple strikes versus a punch intended to knock a person out. The latter one is more risky than the former one, in my opinion.
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I’m missing something as far as the consistancy of this approach. If your objective that you train for is to remove yourself from the situation, than I don’t see why you wouldn’t just run if you are out of range. As for not training “knock outs” - well what if you do need to incapacitate the opponent, for whatever reason? How do you plan to go about doing so? You say you aren’t too into throwing, and you aren’t training yourself to go for a knockout - so that leaves us with infliction of a joint break or eye/nut gouge - all of these things which are harder to pull off than a knockout, IMO. Please elaborate.
I’ll gladly elaborate. I was speaking of two different situations, as I think others were … sparring and real combat. Number 1 was answered for sparring, number 2 more for real fights. The original poster didn’t specify what he wanted. Which way do you want me to answer these questions?
I’ll answer for him, we do train to knock out, for some reason though our teachers our sticklers on insurance and we don’t hit each other very hard unless a full contact division has been set up.
But even in the 3 white cranes only taught at 3rd brown sash, each one of them has SOME DEFINITE way of knocking someone out.
Even in Lohan Ch’uan there’s a technique that shatters an opponents ribs. As well as throws
We can knock people out, that is a most definite YES.
Well do you train to knock someone out, for sport?
No matter what I say a few of you will attack me for my comments because I have become your poster boy for your pent up angers and inadequacies and also to you sick puppies that actually take joy in trying to bring others down.
For sport no. We practice full contact from time to time but not full force. My goal in training is not to beat a fellow student so hard that he looses consciousness. I am concerned how my opponent counters a committed punch that has the potential to knock him silly if we had not been wearing pads. I am also concerned how I recover after my attack is countered. I know what areas to hit for increased chance for a knockout and am pretty well trained in landing my attacks there as well. I have also played with sequences of knockout points using sharp strikes with varying successes, on my own.
In answer to your previous question about what I would do if I had the need to incapacitate someone, I have never been in that situation. All of the real fights I have been in over the years have never been life or death situations, to the best of my knowledge. I saw no knives or any other weapons drawn. The worst I would have recieved if I had failed would have been a beat up body and maybe some cracked ribs or other broken bones. I never had the need to leave a person laying on the ground not moving, I am afraid to do so. The only time I can forsee the need to do this is in a life and death situation for me or most importantly a loved one. I would not have reservations of leaving this type attacker on the ground, not moving. I pray that neither I nor any of you will ever be in that situation.
You honestly don’t know? Full force is what you see in real fights and also in UFCs, you are physically trying to hurt the other person. Full contact, at least in my definition, is about the same force as a totally untrained fighter would use. Yes, it could hurt someone while sparring but with the gear on real damage would be kept to a minimum. This is enough force to better simulate real combat because of the need to have comitted attacks. I know that is a rough definition, maybe someone that utilizes that definition and concept can elaborate further. I am getting pulled away from the boards for a bit.
Yup. Boxers have many different intensity levels for sparring. You can go fifty percent (usual, run of the mill sparring), you can go seventy five percent power (e.g. training for an upcoming bout), etc…
It’s not ever broken down into two different styles of fighting, it’s just controlling how hard you’re hitting. You don’t want to seriously injure your sparring partners, but you don’t want to tap them either. The closer to the bout you are, the harder you go up to a point. You want to get used to getting hit hard and hitting hard, while avoiding needless injury before the match.
Your definition of full force matches what a boxing match is essentially.
OK, I better understand what you mean now. In my mind, full contact is full force, using your definition. Anything else is sparring with a pre-determined level of force decided beforehand. And I’m CMA, not a boxer, so this would appear to be a fairly generic terminology.
I counter fight, when I do attack it is setup most of the time with a fake or a feign. The invert to the groin/stomach followed by a round house with the same leg to the head is one that I do for real or will fake or feign. Intentionally missing with a kick, spinning hook is a good example, so that they will rush in to attack because they think I am off balance. This makes it easier to catch them with a counter on the way in. But really what I use depends on them.
Worked out at a Thai fighters house with four of his students for about 2.5 hours on Sundays for 6 months. Would remember to watch for leg kicks and block them the way they showed me as we do not do leg kicks. Found that side kicks were something that they did not see when sparring. Liked their pad work. Would not spar under their rules.
As for what I rely on when sparring, side kick, invert kick, round house, break up my timing. But most important, don’t force a technique that I want to use but what is most usefull that is being presented to me.
I try not to rely on speed or power as the person I may be sparring with may have greater speed and power.
Left out the boxer,
Never sparred with one so I would not try to trade punches. Would keep hands up and kick when an opening presented itself. Try sweeping front foot followed with a side kick. Again you can not have preconceived notions what you are going to get away with. I would have to feel them out to see what I can and can not do.
My older brother wrestled in high school so I can do a ok hip toss. The front leg sweep either front or reverse. I do better with the reverse.
That would put you in a world of hurt against practioners of a throwing art. Thats exactly where I want my opponent, in the clutch.
I used to be primarily a striker, but as of lately I’ve been trying to think like all my fights will eventually end up in the clutch (as most do). I’ll point out some of the habits I’m working to break. In Shuai Chiao a lot of the throws end up with you on one leg. My problem was that I was used to the backwards sweep from shaolin-do. It is okay to keep your feet on the ground as a novice, but as I advance through the system I need to become more comfortable on one foot. Keeping my feet on the ground takes so much power out of my throws. I used to box with my friends when I was younger. Now days I do bookoos of heavy bag work, focus mit training, and 75% sparring. I have to point out that staying fruther away puts my opponent in range for my jab. I used prefer to keep opponents out of the inside with low kicks and jabbing, but now days I’m impartial. I belive it is important to have a great jab.
“That would put you in a world of hurt against practioners of a throwing art. Thats exactly where I want my opponent, in the clutch.”
Maybe, but, in the words of Chris Berman, “That’s why they play the game.” I’ve free sparred against some Aikido peeps and found success. I’m interested in SC and would like to train with some of you guys too. Everytime I fight, I learn something new.
“Intentionally missing with a kick, spinning hook is a good example, so that they will rush in to attack because they think I am off balance. This makes it easier to catch them with a counter on the way in. But really what I use depends on them.”
I could see this working from time to time, but once you reach a certain level of opponent this is not going to work. Despite the fact that you have intentionally missed and are prepared for the rush, you still have left yourself in a compromised position with your missed kick. You are basically stationary and unable to generate momentum in any direction.
As for the invert kick, I say to you guys, do you really think an invert kick will stop a grown, angry man? You cannot count on it reaching the groin, and it is a weak kick, only making use of the quadriceps muscles and not the stronger glutes. To those that would use this kick as a setup for another kick, it sounds like you think the person will be frozen by your invert kick. That’s not necessarily the case.