HERE you go guys…
True nam tonglong is Chu Gar–the one and only!!!
http://www.infinite.org/library/pages/sbmac2.1-18.html
http://www.cclib.nsu.ru/progects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/wushu/sm.html
http://www.ironoxprayingmantis.co.uk/frameset.html
Hope this will work…
http://www.infinite.org/library/pages/SBMAC2.1-18html
http://cclib.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/wushu/sm.html
Handsome, though I’m a devoted Chow Gar Tong Long practisioner, I find your statement: “The only true southern praying mantis is CHU GAR TONGLONG”, to be a fire hazard, and contemptable by the users of this board.
Either rephrase that statement, or cease and desist.
Juggler,
Chow gar comes from Chu Gar, please check out the web and you will find the answer.
Handsome,
That’s not what he’s talking about. Whether is CHOY GAR, CHU GAR doesnt’ matter. JUGGLER is saying that there are other branches of southern mantis that are JUST AS good. Your statement that chu gar mantis is the only true one is flat out wrong. That’s like saying Yip Man’s branch of wing chun is the only true one. There’s a ton of other branches in all styles. Mantis, northern shaolin, wing chun, southern mantis you name it.
I speak chinese but it’s pronouced Choy Gar, by the way. It’s one of the famous southern styles Choy, lay, mok… ?? something like that.
True differences everywhere essence the same, though it should and typically is acknowledged that Chu Gar is the first and original father of all Nam TongLong styles. That is a point but all variations (Chow Jook Lum etc) are good.
Choy (Cai), Chu (Zhu) & Chow (Zhou) are all different surnames.
Choy Gar & Chu Gar VERY different.
Chow (Zhou) appears in the Nam Tonglong styles and in the Hung related one usually written in Eng. Jow Ga.
Regards
Shi Chan Long
What part of…
General discussion of Northern Praying Mantis did you guys miss?? Take this elsewhere.
“It’s all the same; Only the names have changed…”
In the tuttle dictionary of martial arts Chu Gar is called Chyu Ga and Chuka Shaolin Phoenix eye fist is called Jyu Ga they are both called ZHU JIA.There is a style of southern mantis called Gee Gar Har which Iron Ox Southern Mantis descends from this i found out by a Iron Ox Southern mantis sifu acording to him Iron Ox southern mantis does not come from Chu Gar.Choy Gar is not a Southern mantis style it is a long arm style one of the southern Five family styles founded by Choy Gau Yee it is not southern mantis.There is a difference between Chow Gar southern mantis of Ip Shui and the Chow Gar,Jow Gar style of Jow Lung,Ip Shui s Chow Gar is southern mantis and should not be confused with the style called Jow Gar ,Chow Gar,that was created by Jow Lung in the 1900 s.Jow Lungs Chow Gar is called Jow Gar ,Chow Gar,and ZHOU JIA But it is not southern mantis,please do not confuse Ip Shui s and Jow Lungs styles as i said Ip Shui s Chow Gar ,Zhou Jia,is southern mantis Jow Lung s Jow Gar ,Chow gar,Zhou Jia,is not southern mantis but composed of Hung Gar ,Choy Gar and Bak Shaolin.As far as which southern mantis style is the original that is open for debate there are other hakka styles like hakka Snake style and hakka southern Eagle claw style.
Shi Chan Long,
I’m curious. Who gave you your name? Are you Chinese? No offense, I just find it interesting to have a name like yours.
But Chu Gar southern mantis is called Chu gar,Chyu Ga,Chu Ka,Zhu Jia, Chuka Shaolin Phoenix eye fist is called Chuka,Jyu Ga,Zhu Jia.Chow gar southern mantis is called Chow gar,Chau Ka,Zhou Jia.Jow Lung Jow Gar is called Jow gar,Chau Ka ,Zhou Jia, but is not southern mantis.
I heard of an iron ox southern praying mantis.Anyone care to share info on this?
“Always be ready”
To know the facts…
Shoalinmaster–well said!!! 
Beitanglang–Are you nut or what??? :mad:
Chu Gar is the one, Ip Shui changed the pronuncition of Chu to Chow as a result of a dispute over the porper dialic pronunciation. Poor Chow–please change your name back to Chu Gar–that’s your real identity!!! 
Chu and Gee are the same family as ZHU in mainland China
Fire Hawk–Chu Gar and Gee Gar are the same, its just a different dialic pronunciation.
Handsome here is what the Iron ox southern mantis sifu said about his style
Firstly, No !!!Dit Ngau Tong long Pai or Iron-Ox Praying mantis does not come from Jook Lum Nor does it come from what today is term Chu Gar Gao, this is simply because circa 1912-1924, there were a few miss understanding between the phonetic pronounciation between cantonese and the hakanist dialect where the word Chu and chow although writing in the same manner they sound differently when pronounced in these corresponding dialects. But the true origings of all Southern praying mantis is from the Hakka people that migrated to various provinces in the South in order to seek refuge from the Ching Goverment. The original settlers were descendants from the Royal Ming Court and their supporters. During the time at the Southern Shaolin the style of hakka praying mantis as it was then commonly known went through a phase of improvement and development. The first generations descendants were responsible for the various changes in techniques and forms, originally there was only one large form, that was further broken down into different sections, by the turn of the century this sequences came down to four main forms. Today there are many more forms, some Southern styles teach upto twenty forms including their versions of the first four forms. As a matter of fact it is my firm believe that Sam Bo Ging should not be the first form but at least form number three. This is based on my personal experience of the style that I was taught, and the sequences in our style. You must appreciate that our branch of praying mantis is from mainland china and not from Hong Kong, so there are some differences in any case. As a matter of fact Dit Ngau tong long has also been known as Gee Gar Har Tong Long. Secondly Gee Gar Har Tong Long is not kwan Sai Jook Lum Pai. The evidence for this rest on the boxing forms themselves. Foundamentally, the boxing forms may have similar names to any of the other three Southern mantis, but the concepts, sequence applications are different. You may or may not know that in the United Kingdom there is large following of Jook Lam Pai and when comparing the boxing sequences they are definitly different to some extent.Also no single Southern praying mantis style teaches the same form sequences or methods but they all have at least one or two form which act as their fundamental forms or core forms from where everything can be found. examples of this are Sam Bo Gin; every Southern style must use at least a form that contains the fundamental concepts necessary to the style and in Southern praying mantis this form holds that place. Mainly because of short power development, 1 inch power 3 inch power, 36 main pressure points, including the 6 main points (lok yee-yue), the seeds of the style are found within this form ie. includes both soft energy techniques and hard striking techniques, including: phoenix eye fist, finger thrusting fist, soft wrist jerking/dissolving/ tiger claw/ forearm striking/ outer and inner arm dissolving/ phoenix upper cut/ palming single and double/, tearing, pushing, dissolving, controlling and redirecting, pressing, etc. In our style these are the key points to Sam Bo Ging and contrary to some peoples believe we tend to prefer soft energy or absorbing rather that mere external power. We have no fighting guards or ready stance/positions, evrything is done from the normal walking stance.
It is also has been said that there are different styles of Chu Gar.There is Chu Gar Gao and then there is Chu Gar southern mantis,I have herd that these two syles are different.Then there is Chow Gar southern mantis which i personaly believe comes from Chu Gar southern mantis.And then there is Chuka Shaolin Phoenix Eye fist which half of it is Chu Gar southern mantis mixed with other arts it is believed Fukien White Crane.
Fire Hawk–Can you tell us about Chu Gar’s weapons like the butterfly sword and Dan tao kwan?
Pac Mang Fa Tong Long pai is considered a Northern Hakka Southern Mantis style
Here is what the sifu from the Iron Ox website told me about Pac Mang Fa Tong Long Pai he also knows this style.
Pac Mang Fa tong Long Pai is northern,but it also hasits origions on Hakka praying mantis.The fact that some practitioners call our style Pac mang Fa Tong Long Pai is due to the hand techniques applied and its softness,ie.Siu Mui Fa and Dai mui Fa hand forms.But there are slight variations between Dit Ngau Iron Ox Southern mantis and Pac Mang Fa.Our late master knew both,our uncle in China still practices both in China .Even in London China Town,some of the elders considered our style as Pa Tong Long due to its origions.but today geographcally most people consider itas soutjern mantis. That is what he had to say Pac Mang Fa Tong Long means White Plum Flower Praying mantis in cantonese Bak Mui Fa Tong Long.It is considered a southern mantis style that is considered a Northern southern mantis hakka style.That is so strange Email the sifu at the Iron Ox Website and ask him about this style
Hakka is old Chinese race from central of China, the famous Hakka Chu Xi (1130-1200)-the Neo-Confucian thinker has dominated China for seven hundred years. Chu family represent 1% of chinese population-- which has over 16 million Chu’s people in the world. Chu Gar tonglong is the Hakka origin and all others so called tonglong i have many doubt about them and dont believe everything the sifu told you. Only the Chu Gar tonglong is the real one…
Handsome
Handsome i belive that the Chu gar style is the orginal to its just that there are other people that dont aggree with it being the orginal.There is other hakka styles like hakka snake style and hakka southern Eagle claw.I know of a sifu who teaches Chu Gar southern mantis i will ask him about Chu gars weapons for you.As far as the Iron Ox southern mantis history email the sifu and ask him about his styles history i am only saying what he has said email him. http://www.ironoxprayingmantis.co.uk/Frameset.html
Handsome
Handsome there is a Chu Gar southern mantis sifu in Chicago where you live.I will get his address for you.