I recently began to wonder as to the future of traditional Martial arts. Frankly speaking, it appears dismal.
One only need look to our popular culture and the many MA magazines which now are filled with RBSD.
Vewry few promote the TMA from a practical and or even cultural basis. Many Traditional schools are unable or unwilling to change with the times. The situation in China is that Modern Wushu is all the go and it seems the same in Japan and Okinawa where baseball seems more popular!
I would argue that three factors representing a great threat to the preservation of traditional fightings arts (yes that’s what they truly are). The first is modern trends away from the cultural and philosophical aspects of the TMA and their inherent practical applications as witnessed in our media. The second is ignorance. Most people could not tell Kung-Fu from Chinese folk dancing. Martial artists worldwide perpetuate this myth by promoting images that have nothing to do with the real arts. The last is even more insidious, the con-men and fakes that trouble all arts.
Part of the reason I see for the general demise of the TMA and in particular Chinese Martial Arts is that most of the traditional martial artists themselves remain (largely by choice) cocooned from the mainstream martial arts world.
Some like myself, are attempting to open up a once closed door art, showcasing its benefits and hopefully contributing in some small way to its survival into the future.
As for practicality, I cannot speak for other arts but I think some would be very surprised at the applications of some of the TMA, they are not as impractical as some would believe and in fact have a lot in common with RBSD! My particular art has an element of change inherent within. To the traditional Chinese martial artist and art the element of change and creativity is an important one as they believe that the art is dead without it.
I cannot speak for Karatedo in all its forms as I’m no longer involved in that world but Chinese martial arts are my passion and the path I have decided to walk upon.
As stated earlier most Traditional Chinese Martial Arts (and I mean Traditional in the very sense of the word) have an element of change built within. The mentality of the arts is creative. The mentality of learning is to feel and gain the essence of the art. It is this "essence: that is important and that which must be understood , not setting the art into concrete but letting the essence of the art grow a, change with the needs of society and grow. The art is creative. After one has learnt and practiced for a long time. then one should blend the art with one’s own ideas to make the art even greater.
The art is alive an creative. To Chinese philosophy if an art is not creative, then that art is dead.
Returning the thread to its original point, the traditional arts are currently in decline, most of the true traditional teachers of the arts remain cocooned from the current martial arts world by either a matter of choice, tradition or cultural considerations. This is especially true of my own art of White Crane Gongfu/Wushu. It is only via my efforts to bring my master’s art “out” into the world that the art may survive, adapt and hopefully grow.
Otherwise, the arts will die out and then what will we be left with?
RSBD and CQB are part of the unique thing we call martial arts. What makes me wince is that some of the practitioners of these arts wear traditional Dogi and Obi or Traditional Kung-Fu dress and sashes, call there “art” by some Asian inspired name yet claim to have no link to the art form they are imitating in their promotion of the art they teach. We have all seen these types grace the pages of our favourite magazines. This adds further to the denigration of the true traditional essence of the traditional arts.
My question is, what can be done to ensure the survival and growth of the traditional arts?
In the West, generally speaking, people want what they want now and they want to pay exactly for what they expect and no less.
Couple this with endemic ADD, practically the norm at this point, and you’ve got a series of dying arts where very few aspire to the notions espoused in the depth these arts may or may not offer.
Good kung fu is good kung fu regardless…scrapping in the street is still scrapping in the street. The popular venues for sport fighting may change, but people still stab rob like any other century!
I predict a LKFMDC vs Minghequan debate in the making…
so I’m jus gonna kick back in the LaZboy with some Orville Reddenbacher’s lite and maybe a nice cold Tsingtao and wait…
[QUOTE=Minghequan;806038]Part of the reason I see for the general demise of the TMA and in particular Chinese Martial Arts is that most of the traditional martial artists themselves remain (largely by choice) cocooned from the mainstream martial arts world.
Some like myself, are attempting to open up a once closed door art, showcasing its benefits and hopefully contributing in some small way to its survival into the future.
As for practicality, I cannot speak for other arts but I think some would be very surprised at the applications of some of the TMA, they are not as impractical as some would believe and in fact have a lot in common with RBSD! My particular art has an element of change inherent within. To the traditional Chinese martial artist and art the element of change and creativity is an important one as they believe that the art is dead without it.[/QUOTE]
Good stuff. Awesome post. Nothing to add (except to speculate about what TCMA would be like today if the Nanjing Guoshu Institute was able to continue its work in the Martial arts at the pace it did before the Revolution.)
[QUOTE=Minghequan;806037]I recently began to wonder as to the future of traditional Martial arts. Frankly speaking, it appears dismal.
One only need look to our popular culture and the many MA magazines which now are filled with RBSD.
Vewry few promote the TMA from a practical and or even cultural basis. Many Traditional schools are unable or unwilling to change with the times. The situation in China is that Modern Wushu is all the go and it seems the same in Japan and Okinawa where baseball seems more popular!
I would argue that three factors representing a great threat to the preservation of traditional fightings arts (yes that’s what they truly are). The first is modern trends away from the cultural and philosophical aspects of the TMA and their inherent practical applications as witnessed in our media. The second is ignorance. Most people could not tell Kung-Fu from Chinese folk dancing. Martial artists worldwide perpetuate this myth by promoting images that have nothing to do with the real arts. The last is even more insidious, the con-men and fakes that trouble all arts.
More to come …[/QUOTE]
Yes!! Kudos!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way. TMA is rapidly fading in the name of commercialism and yes the mighty beast of MMA. Tradition is on the way out seems. No one seems to care. Even Tae Kwon Do has fallen to a “Olympic sport”. Wushu is next it seems
well, a few more of these threads and TMA might just lose me forever. that will be a great loss. the sky isn’t falling yet! jesus christ does anyone even train anymore, or do they just come on here to b1tch about their MA?
sorry, i need a break from this forum. see you in a year or so.
[QUOTE=street_fighter;806096]well, a few more of these threads and TMA might just lose me forever. that will be a great loss. the sky isn’t falling yet! jesus christ does anyone even train anymore, or do they just come on here to b1tch about their MA?
sorry, i need a break from this forum. see you in a year or so.[/QUOTE]
Look in the mirror. tapping school tables and think you’re doing steel fist gong, recommend a fraud ninja school in a city 1000 km from where you live, now suddenly change face and do MMA. Look in yourself. i hope you will find what you look for. we both started around same time, but now look at you. i spit your face.
lose faith in TMA by reading a forum, i doubt you ever did any serious training.
[QUOTE=Immortal_Dragon;806093]Yes!! Kudos!! I thought I was the only one who felt this way. TMA is rapidly fading in the name of commercialism and yes the mighty beast of MMA. Tradition is on the way out seems. No one seems to care. Even Tae Kwon Do has fallen to a “Olympic sport”. Wushu is next it seems[/QUOTE]
Tae Kwon Do and Wushu as we know them barely have 150 years of history between them - how can their traditions be on the way out?
I started a list of names and schools that teach what I consider TMA and I stopped around 100 when I recognized that the list would be very long and I didn’t feel like typing so much. However, it struck me that the future of TMA wasn’t as dismal as some people would like you to believe. The only thing that seems dismal is the uncontrollable growth of McKwoons, McDojos, and self-proclaimed Masters, who create made up styles or learn only from DVD’s and books. For everyone 1 authentic TMA there seems to be 10 McDojos.
With so many different styles of martial arts that exist today, TMA will continue to exist. We’ve all seen how the popularity of styles change every few decades. Authentic TMA schools can use the criticism, growth of McKwoons, and trendy styles to their advantage. TMA schools can offer the same benefits as any popular style of martial arts today. The niche will then be the other aspects of traditional martial arts that attracted so many westerners to it back in the day. With so many things to offer, TMA schools have to remember that in today’s western society, conditioning for health and training to defend yourself with practical techniques are at that forefront in the minds of many students todays.
Ten Tigers wrote:
There will always be schools who like to wear karate kid headbands,patches,so many colored belts so it looks like Walt Disney threw up, and cater to the David Carradine wannabes. There will also ALWAYS be schools that train hard, fight hard, and will not compromise. This is how it has always been, this is how it shall always be.
It’s much easier for me to find traditional Chinese martial arts now than it was just 10 years ago… maybe because of the internet, but all it takes is for one good teacher to produce two good teachers, and he’s spread his art. More schools seem to pop up every year, and as contemporary wushu has gotten further away from it’s traditional roots, I’ve even seen some quality teachers coming out of the woodwork in mainland China, and immigrating somewhere with more political freedom.
And I think people forget that the old masters had their own fair share of quacks during their time too. Not everyone in the old days was running around fighting for their lives, and they did have their fair share of qigong/martial arts cults trying to summon spirits or other such nonsense.
[QUOTE=Tai-Lik;806152]I started a list of names and schools that teach what I consider TMA and I stopped around 100
[/QUOTE]
Of those 100, how many have students that do any sort of full contact fighting or alive competition? Not point sparring, not continuous point sparring, not sparring in their school, but real actual testing of their skills in an open envirionment?
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;806161]Of those 100, how many have students that do any sort of full contact fighting or alive competition? Not point sparring, not continuous point sparring, not sparring in their school, but real actual testing of their skills in an open envirionment?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;806163]That would depend on the school wouldn’t it?[/QUOTE]
If you want to define “keeping alive” people teaching the techniques, forms and theories, TCMA is fine, there are TONS of schools out there, more than ever before, styles that in the 1970’s we didn’t even know existed. I know schools that over the years the sifu have revealed more and more of the contents of the tradition
But to me, if you can’t fight with it, it all amounts to a hill of beans. Having run all Chinese tournaments in the past, having promoted San Shou/San Da since 1994, being involved in the fight community (san da, MMA, Muay Thai, etc) I can tell you for a fact that 95% (if not more) of the CMA based schools in this country are not doing anything remotely looking like “fighting”
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;806165]If you want to define “keeping alive” people teaching the techniques, forms and theories, TCMA is fine, there are TONS of schools out there, more than ever before, styles that in the 1970’s we didn’t even know existed. I know schools that over the years the sifu have revealed more and more of the contents of the tradition
But to me, if you can’t fight with it, it all amounts to a hill of beans. Having run all Chinese tournaments in the past, having promoted San Shou/San Da since 1994, being involved in the fight community (san da, MMA, Muay Thai, etc) I can tell you for a fact that 95% (if not more) of the CMA based schools in this country are not doing anything remotely looking like “fighting”[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, but do we blame the TMA or do we blame the practioners (teacher and students alike) ?
I am all for blaming the people that do the deed, not the deed it self.
We can say that the vast majority of Karate schools suck at fighting and that most couldn’t punch their way out of a wet burrito, but on the same token, we all know at least on school, from any system you choose, who’s practioner CAN fight.
And yet, its the same system, only trained differently.
We can’t blame system, its like saying algebra sucks because the majority can’t use it.