Guang Yi Ren is Chen Xiaowang’s rep in NYC. We ar friends with one of his students. They have video tape of the push hands competitions they do at Chen village
IT IS WRESTLING
it is not the touchy feely no force crap you see over here
a US based “push hands champion” went to Chen village and asked to push, he was picked up in a body lock and thrown, he told them they weren’t doing tai chi push hands :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
I agree that push hands SHOULD turn into clinch wrestling, I mean, why shouldn’t it and how can it not in a functional way?
The problem is the lack of “aftermath” of “clinch wrestling” within taiji training (typically).
[QUOTE=Baqualin;927534]Those are more familiar…I’ve been practicing Chen for around 10 years now and it’s my primary focus (or should I say my favorite) along with Baqua (30 years here). Not saying I’m good…it’s just a big part of my life.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;927536]I agree that push hands SHOULD turn into clinch wrestling, I mean, why shouldn’t it and how can it not in a functional way?
The problem is the lack of “aftermath” of “clinch wrestling” within taiji training (typically).[/QUOTE]
there is something to be said for throwing them down hard and running away (or stomping on their head)
I think in the grand scheme, ground work must be intergrated, but I can see where they are coming from
to me, much of Tai Chi is wrestling, we know wrestling works, but as a friend said to me recently “only the Chinese could take wrestling and make it a non functional TMA”
Guang Yi Ren is Chen Xiaowang’s rep in NYC. We ar friends with one of his students. They have video tape of the push hands competitions they do at Chen village
IT IS WRESTLING
it is not the touchy feely no force crap you see over here
a US based “push hands champion” went to Chen village and asked to push, he was picked up in a body lock and thrown, he told them they weren’t doing tai chi push hands :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Two names I respect the most…been to a Chen Xiaowang workshop and plan to attend more! he’s awesome…no BS
Our school went to Chen village in 98 and a couple of our masters pushed with a couple of theirs…your right it was no patty cake…we left with a lot of mutual respect.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;927538]there is something to be said for throwing them down hard and running away (or stomping on their head)
I think in the grand scheme, ground work must be intergrated, but I can see where they are coming from
to me, much of Tai Chi is wrestling, we know wrestling works, but as a friend said to me recently “only the Chinese could take wrestling and make it a non functional TMA” :D[/QUOTE]
Sometimes I don’t understand why people get so upset with you…yes you can be a D!ck…but you really call it like it is;)
BQ
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;927537]Chen for 10 years too :)[/QUOTE]
Yeah I love it…Tai Chi / Baqua / Hsingi / Iron Bone…that’s all I do anymore, I figure that’s all I need to keep me busy at my age. Really have a lot of respect for Dale & Dr. Painter Too.
BQ
[QUOTE=Baqualin;927545]Sometimes I don’t understand why people get so upset with you…yes you can be a D!ck…but you really call it like it is
BQ[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=banditshaw;927399]Does anybody have any stories, info, footage, or winners lists from these tournaments held?
I have heard there were fights between different Kung Fu styles and even fights with Thai Boxers that were all full contact and got quite bloody at times.
I think Master Chan Sau Chung produced some fighters that won in those events.
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
Just so happens I spoke to my sifu about this subject, just last week. He said not as many fighters attended this event as you may think. He said yes there were some schools there and some Thai Boxers, but, not the level of experience you would expect to see at a event of that size.
He used an actor winning one yr as proof the competition was not the greatest in his opinion.
He used an actor winning one yr as proof the competition was not the greatest in his opinion.
[/QUOTE]
the “actor” he is talking about was a professional fighter in Asia, winning fights in Japan and Thailand as well, he became an actor AFTER being a fighter!
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;927574]the “actor” he is talking about was a professional fighter in Asia, winning fights in Japan and Thailand as well, he became an actor AFTER being a fighter![/QUOTE]
I assume you’re speaking of Chan Sau Chung’s student?
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;927574]the “actor” he is talking about was a professional fighter in Asia, winning fights in Japan and Thailand as well, he became an actor AFTER being a fighter![/QUOTE]
chen kwan tai’s my favorite.
remember my first (and only) time trying to do push hands in a tournament in the states (had done it in japan a bit with a sister school).
i got matched up with a friend of mine from the shuai chiao school, with a lot of height and reach on me.
when i found out it was fixed foot position, i was like “wtf ?”
he won the match by blasting me with palm strikes in my chest, while i was stuck outside of my range.
i kept looking at the judge to do something.
kinda lost my cool afterward, but once i calmed down i realized that it wasn’t really a game i wanted to get good at.
[QUOTE=banditshaw;927579]If I’m not mistaken the actor was Chen Kuan Tai.
He always looked like he knew what he was doing in the movies that’s for sure.:D[/QUOTE]
I don’t get the feeling he was too impressed with his skill. I’m not trying to start a debate over it, It’s just the feeling I got from him. He knows Chan Sau Chung and according to him my sigung knew Kan Tak Hoi. Apparently Kan Tok Hoi was very much the real deal and Chan Sau Chung while he moves good, his skill level is no where near that of his sifu.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;927509]the label “internal” was the worst thing to ever happen to those arts, because in practice their techniques are good striking and good grappling, but since they seldom train realistically anymore, much of it is being lost (or is lost totally)[/QUOTE]
it was an attempt by some of the folks at the end of the 19th cen. to carve out a niche for a more “gentlemanly” practice of kung fu (Yang Lu Chan, Sun Lu Tang, etc. - although not to say that they couldn’t fight themselves…) - meaning that if you want upper-middle and royalty class peeps to come train with you (you know, the ones with the $$$), you have to sell them on the idea that they can learn to be whirlwinds of death without getting the trim of their robes soiled (hence, the gentrification of taiji by Mr. Yang: stomping, low spinning sweeps, stomping kicks and fine details that would relate to actual trapping range skill - all buh-bye); then, all you then have to do is come up with a series of arguments as to why a TRUE internal practitioner doesn’t have to fight to prove his skill, and you’re home free!
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;927536]I agree that push hands SHOULD turn into clinch wrestling, I mean, why shouldn’t it and how can it not in a functional way?[/QUOTE]
if you check out my friend’s school here, that’s exactly what does happen: http://www.taichili.com/training_for_tournament_competit.htm
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;927538]to me, much of Tai Chi is wrestling, we know wrestling works, but as a friend said to me recently “only the Chinese could take wrestling and make it a non functional TMA” :D[/QUOTE]
if you look at “the form” from a grappling perspective, it starts to make a lot more sense…
[QUOTE=banditshaw;927399]Does anybody have any stories, info, footage, or winners lists from these tournaments held?
I have heard there were fights between different Kung Fu styles and even fights with Thai Boxers that were all full contact and got quite bloody at times.
I think Master Chan Sau Chung produced some fighters that won in those events.
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]
I want to interview sifu Tat Wong maybe get some article on these fights?
[QUOTE=jmd161;927583]I don’t get the feeling he was too impressed with his skill. I’m not trying to start a debate over it, It’s just the feeling I got from him. He knows Chan Sau Chung and according to him my sigung knew Kan Tak Hoi. Apparently Kan Tok Hoi was very much the real deal and Chan Sau Chung while he moves good, his skill level is no where near that of his sifu.
jeff:)[/QUOTE]
You sure know how to offend people don’t you. 99% Of the kung fu people out there study crap, and Chan Koon Tai was just an actor who happened to have won the fight – that proving the event wasn’t so good?
Your sifu should perhaps contact the TSPG guys in HK and Canada and tell them, what he thought about them. See how they react? You do know that the TSPG gym in HK still to this day produce some pro MT fighters. They also follow a very modern approach in fighting, not unlike many of the US gyms.
I met Chan Koon Tai, Lau Gar Fai and a few other Asian movie stars, and I must say, I was pretty intimidated by CKT’s presence. He’s definitely not just an actor.
[QUOTE=Eddie;927806]You sure know how to offend people don’t you. 99% Of the kung fu people out there study crap, and Chan Koon Tai was just an actor who happened to have won the fight – that proving the event wasn’t so good?
Your sifu should perhaps contact the TSPG guys in HK and Canada and tell them, what he thought about them. See how they react? You do know that the TSPG gym in HK still to this day produce some pro MT fighters. They also follow a very modern approach in fighting, not unlike many of the US gyms.
I met Chan Koon Tai, Lau Gar Fai and a few other Asian movie stars, and I must say, I was pretty intimidated by CKT’s presence. He’s definitely not just an actor.
Just btw, who is your sifu?[/QUOTE]
Eddie,
Let me say this…
I don’t always post on this forum, but, I do read a lot of the post here. I’ve always respected your post and have never had a problem with you. I might not always use the right words or get across the point I was trying to make, I’m Human I make mistakes…It seems all you want to do is nit pick and point out negative or what you take as negative attacks. There are many ways to take a post since you can’t always tell intent from words on a page.
The fact that you look to go negative in everything I post might just show you have problems with how you see the world. I said that Chan Sau Chung didn’t move as well as his sifu, that was someones opinion. I’m sure Chan Sau Chung would more than likely say the same himself. My sifu while amazing to those who know him admits he is not 1% of what his sifu Grandmaster Wong Cheung was.
I wrote a few peoples opinion… every person has an opinion be it justified or not. I mentioned what my sifu said I never mentioned the persons name or style. You assumed I was talking about a student of Chan Sau Chung like many. I don’t know how many people were actors that competed just from the post here I’d say there were more than one.
You need to ask questions before you assume or jump on the negative band wagon all the time with my post. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Chan Sau Chung and have admitted that on this and many other forums across the net. If you feel that I’m wrong in my using percentages…why not spend more time proving me wrong than just starting petty arguments!!!
Or better yet bring something useful to the table…
?”