At recent Shaolin workshop Sifu Shi Yanzi (Songshan shaolin) was giving us a bit of a boll0cking about not using the chinese terms for kicks such as side kick, turning kick, stances (ma bu etc) and so on.
The problem is many of the terms he used were not the same as what we use.
In our southern system a “side kick” is “warng tak”. He used a completely different term.
Can anyone offer some chinese names (with pronounciations) for basic hand, kick, blocks and stances?
Cheers.
“We had a thing to settle so I did him”
Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.
Your words display a feeble and disrespectful attitude for a martial artist. The man asks a legitimate question and you insult his Sifu. You must have a high regard for the martial arts.
Do you give your students the same advice? Or is that how they address you?
Either way, that is not the advice of a Sifu.
So some snob of a teacher requires you to learn his dialects version of his styles version of the name of a sidekick? What kind of bullocks is that? Call it a freakin’ sidekick and be done with it. I have always had low regard for those that insist on haggling over words instead of just teaching the damn lesson. Why do we have to learn all these different versions of the name of a sidekick? It’s a sidekick!!! Chinese isn’t some special formula, it’s a language. Learning a different name for it every week won’t make it any different. If anything is unbecoming of a sifu it is to undermine a student with this kind of rubbish. Students don’t come to me to learn how to be chinese, they come to me to learn about fighting.
I see you have Tai Tzu in your profile, which branch? This should be interesting
Gotta laugh at that first reply… I felt like it at the time believe me…
But…
The sifu wasn’t being over the top about it - he just said that as it was a chinese system we should be familiar with the chinese terms being used. The only problem was that his terms were different from ours.
I don’t have a real problem with it at all. Actually kind of interested in chinese anyway
“We had a thing to settle so I did him”
Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.
It’s the same movement in any language. I give my students terms in both chinese and english. And only because it’s sometimes easier to remeber or say. Ma bu is easier than saying horse stance. But the important thing is the message not the messenger.
My responsibility as a teacher is:
Learn HOW to communicate with the student then create a rapport
Understand the students needs
Teach the NEEDED information
Anything beyond this is purely excess. And, subject to all the trappings and flags that adorn the hall.
Protocol would suggest that the visiting instructor should try to use terms that everone understands locally. Most teachers at seminar will take a concensus of the student body and respect their former knowledge including movement names. Here he didn’t meet the burden for points one and two. Not because the terms were in chinese but that the terms be in his particular dialect in the names that are unique to his style when there are plenty of common tern. You said you hand another name for them, is “warng tak” not chinese?
If you were studying in his school as his student exclusivly then that would be a different story. But this is about a seminar.
Think about it, side kick, “warng tak”, “La Patada” whats the real difference? Imagine for a moment this fighting style was spanish and not chinese. You’d be saying the terms in spanish. Why? Because how else is that spanish man going to say sidekick in spanish? He’s going to say “La Patada” and add a descriptive. It still means sidekick no matter what language its in. Ö
In traditional Chinese Arts, the true Chinese terms often hold a deeper, more significant meaning, than it’s english version - much meaning is lost in translation. One would think that by learning and understanding these terms one would gain a better insight into the art. But hey, why try to gain a better understanding,when you can take the **** out of it? This always comes from those who teach students how to fight, and while I do have a fondness for combat, I am learning an ART.
As for my teacher, he and my Tai Tzu branch have nothing to do with this conversation and I wouldn’t disrespect him by bringing his name up to someone as petty as you
Pheonix-Eye, do you know which dialect you are looking for?
I am the great grandmaster and Soke of RoShamBo south park style.
“I kick you in the nuts as hard as I can and then you kick me in the nuts as hard as you can.”
Hey, Hou-erh,
I see that you finally found the board, so what do you think?
How are things? Please give my kindest regards to your Sifu.
I hear that you have been keeping rather busy. Say - I hear that you are coming over here soon, I hope this means that we can get together again and do some training. I am still nursing the bruises from last time, Ha, Ha, Ha.
Is your Sifu coming over too? Thanks for the video, it was very helpful, it cleared up a lot of problems. I found that the form was very similar to the San Zhan in my branch. The internal long form is a bit different though, the movements are relatively similar but the basics are slightly different. You did explain to me the difference between the branches, but I seem to have mislaid the information, could you please e-mail me them again. Thanks.
“(What a load of horse hockey.
“deeper meaning”.)”
Agreed. I like to learn chinese an chinese terminology, but as an optional intellectual pursuit.
Aikido dojos usually follow as Sifuabel suggested. First they get on with it, i.e. practice: the higher belts are more and more required to learn the terms in Japanese.
But that’s the teacher’st perogative but i would prefer if Westerners brought it into their own native language whatever it is.
So burdening beginners and at a seiminar is not too appropriate.
I am fully aware that some idioms are untranslateable and some terms have historical associations. Using, for example english, we will develop our own untranslateable idioms and associate meanings.
But more the sifu said it was a “chinese system” so they had to learn chinese, he meant chinese-owned, not chinese-derivved nor just respect for chinese derivation but “owned.”
I got that in Taiwan. One coach said he would refuse to answer any questions from me until i learned both Manarin and Taiwanese dialects. Fortunately he wasn’t the teacher who said to me, and everybody else, that kungfu WAS the language. Because we practiced together and did the same movements as each other we would think the same and feel the same. So he called me a brother. But this language issue is a deep prejudice.
Kungfu is a BODY art, it is not a language art. It is universal to all human bodies and all human beings.
Using our own language is one way to disempower racial “owners” and make the ART our own. It is a natural process, the more westerners practice they will still respect where the art came from but they will make it their own and empower themselves.
“A wish to go to Heaven is the very beginning of falling into Hell.”
I am very sorry that you can not grasp the “deeper meaning”, I feel for you, really I do.
As for me being primarily Wing Chun, you know what you need to know???
What is your point? Do you have a point at all?
Nanwu,
everything is good, I have just got back from Sifu Shen, learnt a new form, his Northern leg work is really something. I’ll send you the information in the e-mail. I’m off now to practice my Wing Chun. HA, ha,ha,ha,ha.
Stumblefist,
I agree, I do not believe that you MUST learn another language, but you must have respect. Calling somebodies teacher a wanker is not having respect.
Here’s my two fen. Learn the terms for all the moves in all the languages. Never reject any learning - that is the path of ignorance. The more languages you command, the more people you can communicate with, and the deeper your understanding. Surely this is challenging (and somewhat hypocritical from me since I barely have command of English) but if you’re one to shy away from challenges you’ve entered the wrong art and the wrong forum. Find that polite forum - something like needlepoint.
There’s a lot of high yield info in the other language terms, especially with the Chinese arts, where the names are so poetic.
Been trying to translate wanker - the best I came up with is shou jiao - which is the verb for hand job.
