So, after performing at a cultural event that was entirely in Chinese, the idea has come up for me and some of my training brothers/sisters of trying to learn at least some Chinese.
I know a number of people on this forum have learned varying amounts of Chinese.
Wondering what your opinions are on the payoff vs. costs(temporal mostly I imagine) of learning Chinese for the sake of your kung fu training. (I know it has plenty[and growing] of market value in the business world right now.)
Is it worth the time and effort, or would it be better to spend it other ways?
Do you aim for conversational ability, or just learn useful phrases?
Is it worth it to learn characters, or better just to learn the spoken language?
Obviously just opinion, but I’d like to hear what people have to say. Thanks.
Unless you’re really interested OR suspect you’re at risk of being taken for a ride… don’t bother.
Otherwise, Rosetta Stone really does rock (cough torrent cough) it’s fast, easy, and a little every day is all you need to start progressing. every day, though! important!
Or, find a tutor and watch lots of subtitled kung fu movies.
See, that’s a reason to learn Chinese right there…
it’s a great idea in theory; the only thing about learning a language, IMPE, is that unless you have an actual reason for using it, it can be very difficult to make it functional; for example, I studied German formally for four years in HS, and then minored in it in college - but I was never really that functional with it, because I never had much reason to use it; OTOH, my Cantonese, was acquired haphazardly, and without any formal instruction - but because I had to use it to speak to my late sifu, I was reasonably functional in the various contexts that arose relative to the time I spent with him, and if I had to, I could probably communicate reasonably well with it 20 yrs. later;
my point is that if you are going to take time to learn Chinese, you need to have some sort of context in which you have to use it; for example, I don’t know where you live, but if there is a Chinese cultural center near you, that might be a good place to try to spend some time engaging in “day to day” chit chat with native speakers (at the very least, make it a point to only speak Chinese if you go into a Chinese restaurant);
good luck and enjoy yourself!
P.S. - I would do all of the above: learn phrases, learn vocabulary so as to make your own sentances, and learn as many characters as possible - actually, you could use the names of techniques as a springboard - learn the characters / pronunciation for them, and you’d be surprised how useful that info can be even in everyday usage…
if you may pick up another lingo, it would help you go a long way to understand some of the culture aspect
–
the link is so funny, if you understand some chinese
you may pick up the story line that 3 imperial guards were to take out the flying pig or member of tian di hui or heaven earth association, it was anti qing organisation.
so the donkey, the bull and the dog were out there to search and destroy–
the flying pig was so clumsy that he could not smash the ****roach
he tripped on his apple and toppled the whole inn in the end.
Type an English word in the box and click English ==> Chinese.
Look below for proper character and click on the speaker emblem and it will pronounce the word for you.
Learning to read a text will require:
Learning to use a Chinese dictionary and mastering the Chinese radicals.
Learning Chinese grammar and syntax.
Learning to speak conversationally will require:
A good online program (very cheap) or an aid such as Rosetta Stone (very expensive).
Constant practice with friends.
WARNING: Mandarin Chinese is the “standard” form of Chinese. However, Beijing Mandarin and Taiwan Mandarin are quite different in pronunciation. You can study Chinese for years with a teacher, but still only learn to pronounce the words in the way that will be understood in one area of China. For example, “elbow” is pronounced joo or joe depending on where you are in China.
So decide on what your goal is, then go from there.
Rosetta Stone is complete and utter crap. Unless you want to spend twelve hours, only to be able to say “the boy is under the plane”, “the horses run”, or “12 blue balls”.
Within five minutes of Pimsleur (NO, this is not a friggin’ plug. It really does work.) you can already say “Excuse me, may I ask…”, and within 20 minutes, say “I cannot speak Mandarin very well.”, “Do you speak English?” along with other, practical phrases. Within 5 hours, you’ll be asking for directions, places to eat, drink, ask for tea, ask for water, using conjunctions, and understanding other nuances of the language.
I’ve used both. I say Pimsleur, along with some texts to work on writing and reading.
[QUOTE=Drake;1092929]Rosetta Stone is complete and utter crap. Unless you want to spend twelve hours, only to be able to say “the boy is under the plane”, “the horses run”, or “12 blue balls”.
Within five minutes of Pimsleur (NO, this is not a friggin’ plug. It really does work.) you can already say “Excuse me, may I ask…”, and within 20 minutes, say “I cannot speak Mandarin very well.”, “Do you speak English?” along with other, practical phrases. Within 5 hours, you’ll be asking for directions, places to eat, drink, ask for tea, ask for water, using conjunctions, and understanding other nuances of the language.
I’ve used both. I say Pimsleur, along with some texts to work on writing and reading.[/QUOTE]
Never heard of it. Sounds interesting. And yes, Rosetta stone does not teach much in the terms of Kung Fu, but it’s a bit better than “the boy is under the plane”. Maybe it’s a version and mode thing.
[QUOTE=Drake;1093014]I would wager audio learning is better, wouldn’t you agree?[/QUOTE]
don’t bet on it.
It is dependent upon the persons preferred learning style.
Some people learn well from reading, others from hearing, others from hands on approach, others from mimicry and inculcation and so on and of course combinations of those.
It is dependent upon the persons preferred learning style.
Some people learn well from reading, others from hearing, others from hands on approach, others from mimicry and inculcation and so on and of course combinations of those.[/QUOTE]
But it’s a tonal language. Not only that, but there are dozens of dialects. You are applying a broad swathe of learning techniques, meant to be discussed in the context of learning in general, to a very specialized area.
If you don’t hear the tones, how on earth are you supposed to be able to mimic them? Guesswork?
[QUOTE=Drake;1093041]But it’s a tonal language. Not only that, but there are dozens of dialects. You are applying a broad swathe of learning techniques, meant to be discussed in the context of learning in general, to a very specialized area.
If you don’t hear the tones, how on earth are you supposed to be able to mimic them? Guesswork?[/QUOTE]
yes it is and it is also subject to hundreds of mutually unintelligible dialects.
except for putonghua, so.
If you learn canto, you’ll be limited, you basically have to learn whatever dialect it is that your teacher has going on and you have to learn putonghua (mandarin) as well so that you can then actually communicate to people from China who aren’t Cantonese…which is actually most of them. lol
if you can read a pronunciation key, then you can do it.
I’m not scrubbing your idea, just saying that it is not the only way.
It is dependent upon the persons preferred learning style.
Some people learn well from reading, others from hearing, others from hands on approach, others from mimicry and inculcation and so on and of course combinations of those.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1093049]
if you can read a pronunciation key, then you can do it.
I’m not scrubbing your idea, just saying that it is not the only way.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ShaolinDan;1092910]Is it worth the time and effort, or would it be better to spend it other ways?
Do you aim for conversational ability, or just learn useful phrases?
Is it worth it to learn characters, or better just to learn the spoken language?[/QUOTE]
It is always worth it to learn new languages. ALWAYS. Don’t fuss about how to learn it. Just start studying it. If don’t get very far, at least you learned you have little aptitude for language.
In preparation for my Fencing Provost-at-Arms exam, I had to become familiar with French, Italian and German. I can’t speak enough of any of those languages now to even order in a restaurant, but several of my textbooks were in those languages, so I had to get a working understanding. All the fencing terminology was in French or Italian.
Just do it. Don’t hesitate. It’s not martial to hesitate. :rolleyes:
And this is from someone who doesn’t really speak Chinese
Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk
Learning kung fu talk probably won’t prepare you for regular conversations
Dialects and regional variations can be a bitch
CTS spoke Toisanese, I speak a more standard Cantonese, had trouble talking to a guy from Jungsaan
My Mandarin has cantonese accent and Shanghai variations/vocab (long story), it was great in Shanghai, with Taiwanese we frequently kept saying “what?”
My Shanghai is actually Ningpo… I sound like Chiang Kai Shek
[QUOTE=SPJ;1093086]yes. there are 4 tones in pu tong hua. there are accents everywhere you go.
[/QUOTE]
5 if you count neutral.
The trouble for native English speakers really comes into play with combinations.
2nd followed by 3rd always throws me off.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1093088]I will say this (these?)
Learning standard chinese in an academic situation may not prepare you for kung fu talk
Learning kung fu talk probably won’t prepare you for regular conversations
It’s a maze, a trecherous maze :D[/QUOTE]
In most cases it won’t prepare you for talking period.
A common complaint among native English speaking foreign exchange students who go to China is how utterly useless what they learned in the classroom and from textbooks was.
With Chinese especially, you have to go native. Learning kung fu terminology in it’s specific context will do more to prepare you for everyday conversation than just learning word order and vocabulary.
Back to the original question, yes it absolutely is worth it. Kung fu should be valued most for it’s cultural heritage (I am sure we’ll have more time to debate it’s combat effectiveness, certainly a novel topic in itself. . .) and language is an indispensable part of understanding culture. Not to mention the benefits adult language acquisition has for memory and general long term brain health.
