you have no frame of reference here Donny, you are like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know. . .
[QUOTE=omarthefish;1093360]wenshu:
David Jamieson is on the mark: language acquasition…FAIL!
Learning a language as an adult is certainly different from how you learn as a child but the idea that you are really handicapped on the issue because of brain structure and whatnot is complete and utter bull****. It’s just the same as learning kung fu: hours in = skill out. Show me an adult who has spent as many hours in 5 years learning Chinese as a 5 year old Chinese child has in his entire life and I will show you an adult with better Chinese than that child. Already seen several.
Immersion is a must but it’s not magic. It’s just about hour/day of actual practice. I have at least 1 or 2 kids in every class of 55 or so students that speaks English well enough to chat with me and that’s just in middle school. .
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Next issue:
like Gene said, it’s not a binary proposition. Learn as much as you are able to. The largest single obstacle to learning Chinese is the mental block from thinking you have to actually learn Chinese. I speak from experience. I only took Chinese at first because I wanted to study acupuncture and most TCM schools require a semester or two. Well I ended up flunking organic chemistry and couldn’t really handle the math required for my BS in physiology so that never happened but I kept up with the Chinese and one day…about 10 years later…I realized I could actually speak the language, not in a “get by” way but actually read and speak fluently.
I am 100% confident that if I set that out as my goal at the beginning I would have given up long ago. I just kept at it because it was kind of cool and eventually I got really good at it. . . kind of like kung fu that way eh?[/QUOTE]
Look, if you can’t keep up with the conversation you are going to have to go sit at the kids table.
I didn’t say anything about the comparative neurophysiology involved in first language acquisition vs. adult second language acquisition. Nor did I mention anything about apparent difficulties of adult SLA vs children.
The argument was about whether or not you can learn language without “hearing it”. Immersion is not necessary, of course not.
Someone will not learn to understand or produce spoken language without hearing a native speaker or someone approaching native fluency. If that is from time spent incountry or from practicing with your kung fu teacher doesn’t matter.
I didn’t say anything about goals.
So dropping out of organic chemistry and physiology grants Applied Linguistics credentials? It certainly didn’t help your rhetorical capacity.
If you are going to argue with me at least have the common courtesy to pay attention.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1093036]
It is dependent upon the persons preferred learning style.
Some people learn well from reading, others from hearing, others from hands on approach, others from mimicry and inculcation and so on and of course combinations of those.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1093049]
if you can read a pronunciation key, then you can do it.
I’m not scrubbing your idea, just saying that it is not the only way.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=wenshu;1093091]
A common complaint among native English speaking foreign exchange students who go to China is how utterly useless what they learned in the classroom and from textbooks was.
With Chinese especially, you have to go native. Learning kung fu terminology in it’s specific context will do more to prepare you for everyday conversation than just learning word order and vocabulary.
Back to the original question, yes it absolutely is worth it. Kung fu should be valued most for it’s cultural heritage (I am sure we’ll have more time to debate it’s combat effectiveness, certainly a novel topic in itself. . .) and language is an indispensable part of understanding culture. Not to mention the benefits adult language acquisition has for memory and general long term brain health.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1093103]nay nay. You are failing at understanding the principles of learning, in particular, adult learning which is entirely different than the regular schooling that we give our kids and adolescents.
also, for those of you struggling to break free of learning styles you think are hard and fast I would submit to you that Helen Keller, a blind deaf mute, learned to read, write and speak in the english language and never heard a single thing in her life, not even the song of a bird.
so, before you start throwing out reflective statements such as “fail” about others, do a little homework.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=wenshu;1093120]
Do some cursory research on adult second language acquisition before you reply, but if you really want to argue the possibility of becoming conversant in Mandarin without exposure to everyday usage, feel free.[/QUOTE]
It’s obviously just linux anyway.
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