Hi all!
new to this forum, just wanted to say hello and ask for some advice:
As i continue my training in wing chun and become more experienced, i find that im spending more and more time helping with the instruction of my juniors (I enjoy this and find that its a good opportunity to practice and improve my basics).
I realize that everyone learns and teaches differently and I’m interested to know what points you all stress when teaching basic turning.
thanks very much,
jason
Turning
I try to have them concentrate on “sitting” in their stance, i.e. staying low and not bobbing up and down when turning. It’s easier to wobble off balance when you stand up in your stance. If you have the leg strength to keep a low center of gravity (which also takes time) it is easier to develop speed and power when shifting as you have a stable platform to work on.
<HR>
“It takes a big man to admit he’s wrong…it takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man.”
[This message was edited by Starbuck on 04-20-01 at 11:49 AM.]
whole body unity in turning…
When turning, concentrate the initial movement at the knees. Also, to turn properly, the whole body must be unified, or it becomes segmented. When the knees stop, the elbow stops. When the hip stops, the shoulder stops. The distance between the knees should be the same whether square facing or turned.
The pelvis still should be tucked, chest hollow, head up, and body relaxed. 
Marty
Be true and loving.
http://wingchun.ereasons.net
thank you both. All excellent things for me to focus on and transmit to those im helping. Had to laugh tonight, went to class and sifu asked me to go over turning with a new student! nice to see more people learning wing chun though…
jason
Jason, The Stance turning should never be done from the knees, as it results in Knee problems in the future. The Turn comes from the hips. but there is a special way to do this. Next trip, I will show you!
Turn into the opponent’s center. Your shift should affect their structure otherwise prepare to be escorted. The shift comes from your own center of gravity, which is located 2-3 finger widths below your navel.
Some people turn on the heels, which I don’t agree with. Speaking in pure biomechanics without regard for lineage or style, once the center of gravity passes the heels, balance is compromised. In this case, the body has no margin for error when receiving force beacuse the CoG is directly over the heels already. The CoG needs to be projected forward, not rearwards, and this is more efficiently done when the CoG is centered over the foot.
Shifting on the Kidney 1 point (Bubbling well) located just before the arch of the foot keeps the CoG directly over the feet. Also, the feet are able to stand flat while shifting so that the entire foot and toes are in contact with the ground. This allows the ground to act as a brace against the toes, which are a major componenent of adjusting to external force.
Dzu
Turning on the heels has its advantages also, and has a major purpose for certain techniques.When using the hips, (not the dantien) there is a special way of turning the stance . Not for internet eyes.
Not for internet eyes?
I’ve posted my reply with my reasons for doing so based upon biomechanics. Share with us your reasonings for turning on the heel since we are all here to learn from one another. I am not closed minded and am willing to learn from anyone that can convince me of their reasoning. There are no secrets in WC. Even if there were, until the person has put in the time to train and internalize the concepts, these words will be of no use to them.
Dzu
Roy D. Anthony
SIFU!!!
This is Ian. What are you doing here!?!? How did you find out about this site?
I should be working!!!
hmmmm
perhaps he means it would be too difficult to explain via text? i don’t know of course.
We train to turn with the knee and on the “balls” of the feet, we also root to the “bubbleing well point”
I make sure the people I show can maintain the “pidgeon toed” look to the stance. I find that offten once a few turns are done the toes will go parralel(sp) destoying the abbduction that we use.
I know other schools stand like that to begin with, turn on the heels ect, but i’ve nothing to pass on save my sifus teachings.
ps the feet do go parralel(sp) during he turn, its just they must “recenter” properly, or i make 'em do it again.
Different methods all viable
Hello,
There are three methods for turning:
Using the Balls of the feet:
This method will bring you closer to the opponent and can be used to chew up distance and aggressively attack.
Using the “center” of the foot:
This method is more nuetral and allows for good rooting.
Using the heel:
This method will allow you to maintain distance and is “safer”.
I learned all three and practice all three methods. However, I find that sometimes the terrain will affect which method I use.
DZU,
I find that the heel turning method works better for me on things like carpet and such. I find that turning on the center of the foot, while it can be done, is a little bit slower. But, then again that is just me 
There is a whole other aspect to this subject not yet discussed; do you turn one foot at a time or do you turn both together?
There are many different methods and what it really boils down to is what you can make work for you on a consistent basis.
Peace,
Dave
turning
Perhaps another question needs to be asked.when you turn are you being defensive or agressive?
Personally I turn into my man and or the attack.I disrupt his attack and balance.To do this k1 tuning with the whole foot in contact with the ground is best.If you are turning for evasion(i know turn and punch)but if evasion and distance is main goal then other methods may be better.
I believe the one foot at a time turn was someones way of overcoming the inherent weakness of heel turning.One foot at a time appears slower and seems to leave open a knee to a kick at least when i have played with instuctors from the LT line it has been the case.Still seems easy to unbalance this type of turn.
turning
We turn 1 foot at a time (on the ball) but when you get it down, it looks like 2 at the same time. While you are teaching them to turn, make sure they feel the co-ordination between each elbow and knee if they have the guard up, or if you are doing stance turning with tan da, for instance. Make them feel that unity of structure. It should keep them from turning too far and raising up or floating. To feel the abduction between the knees, get them to hold a punching (hand) pad between their knees as they turn.
Dave,
I agree that terrain does play a significant factor. When on carpet or a wooden floor, I would almost rather step instead of shifting on my heels. Some terrains and footwear do not go well together and these should be accounted for.
I have tried shifting with the heels and toes, but feel that the K1 point maintains my root, which is both more aggressive and safer. I don’t think the K1 is in the exact middle of the foot, but it does follow the line of force of the pelvis and leg to the ground. Being centered gives you a margin for error if pushed or pulled whereas being on the toes or heels leaves a danger of being pulled or pushed off balance.
IMHO the process of rooting follows the biomechanics of the human body. It’s the most efficient way to transfer external force to the ground rather than keep it in one’s structure.
When I shift, I rarely shift quickly. I find that a slight adjustment is often enough to regain the line or change it. I turn based upon what I feel is being exerted upon my structure or how the opponent is rooted. My goal is to protect my center and balance while attacking theirs.
I only turn fast if that is required to break the connection. Oftentimes, turning for the sake of turning skips the important step of feeling. The more advanced practitioners I have touched hands with can use the force created by large gross motions against me so I try to make things as small and light as possible. Economy of motion is always paramount.
I don’t have a hard or fast rule to keep my legs together, turn them simultaneously, or independently. I believe that in the beginning, students should learn to coordinate the whole body, but as they progress, it’s not as important as feeling what the opponent gives you and making adjustments off of that. The forms provide a guide, but one shouldn’t be locked into following them absolutely.
Again, I welcome other peoples ideas because there is always the potential for something that I had not considered before. I have reasons why I do things and share them openly in case someone can use that information for their own learning.
Dzu
What initiates your turn?
Hi Dzu,
Thanks for the reply. I always enjoy reading your posts.
I agree with you that turning methods will vary according to the circumstances. Your opting for stepping kind of reminds me of some William Cheung people I’ve met. Often they would use a very subtle step to compensate and readjust according to the opponent. To my mind stepping is great but is inherently slower than a simple stance turn. Not saying one is better or worse just different approaches.
Out of curiousity I am curious as to how many people perform a stance turn on their own and how many do it as a result of what is given the opponent. In my way of thinking I only turn or step due to the energy or position that the opponent has provided me with.
Peace,
Dave
Basic turning…
If you are punching…punch with your hip…I dont mean shift your hips sideways while punching,I mean shift your hips in the direction your punching in…
IXIJoe KaveyIXI
I am Sharky’s main man…
Dave,
I try to feel the opponent’s intention and where his force is and make the decision to move or not. I have no preference between shifting or stepping since both are in the WC system so both should be learned.
Some lineages use stepping to maintain what they consider proper fighting distance and other lineages use shifting to avoid the opponent’s force or because they feel that power cannot be generated from YJKYM. I feel that both are no longer following the centered way.
Good training to you.
Dzu
I agree with Dave – only turn if the opponent turns you. Otherwise, just go and knock him out directly.
turning
turning is very important in wing chun. It’s such a good question. Dif. branches have their own belief on how to turn. In my opinion Agusting Fong has the best footwork that I have seen. Check out his sparring video and see how he moves if you can get a copy. You should look at Randy Willaims book volume 2 it gives a good explanation on the type of footwork that he uses! I think it’s superb. A whole book can be written on this subject you just have to look, try and decide for yourself what works for you and what makes sense! :eek: good luck!
Hi Ian, nice to see you here too. See you in class.S