The clip is a joke at wing chun’s expense. Im surprised it isnt as obvious to you as it is to me. I dont know exactly why he filmed it or where its from. I think other MMAers are meant to watch it and laugh at the lame attempts of CMA people to formulate anti grappling techniques rather than just use those found in wrestling e.g. shrug and wrench, two on one against a neck tie etc. Put simply its a parody or send up. They do say though that if you have to explain a joke, then the joke was never funny:confused:
(Usual preface to these threads–my first MA was Judo, I’ve done some BJJ, and a very little wrestling…)
A few years back I had a chance to watch some wrestling (US Greco & Freestyle) for MMA. Both myself and a classmate of mine (who’s quite good at BJJ) were struck by how the clinchwork resembled the YKSWCK we’d learned, especially the Weng Chun close range stuff.
Some of the setups were nearly identical (they just didn’t do some of the hitting along the way or at the end).
It’s another example of how similar things (humans) trying to do similar things (establish dominant control within chest-to-elbow range) will come upon similar methods to accomplish them.
I think this might be because there are better ways of doing things, and smart people usually land on these right ways of doing it. If we see similarity in techniques it is not just coincidence. In viewing this clip I did not see the joke. He was merely demonstrating tan sau in this capacity. Not an entire fight sequence. This simple block can be done from many different angles and in many different ways and still be very effective. I have known a few people that used it almost exclusively and were very hard to grab or hit. I like to train all my blocks and paries, but there are those that seem to be as close to natural as anything can feel, so I tend to favor them.
Being trained in Japanese Jujitsu I will state that within this system there are few blocks and paries that I like. In fact, most training that I have seen did not place emphisis upon blocks and paries. Only the following techniques. To be able to effect a wrist lock or a throw you have to be able to get hold of your oponent without getting beaten down. I have found that the blocking systems of WC are perfect for this. I have sort of mixed my training back and forth, and although I would not likely make a good compitition fighter, I can defend myself fairly well. I think that is is a natural thing that we have a tendency to train what we like and drop or add what works well for us. Thus the many different styles and systems. I don’t think one can learn too much in the way of Method and Technique. The only other option that I would see as being as effective would be to buy a large bord handgun.
[QUOTE=Nick Forrer;699390]Actually watching it again there are some more give aways
The guy in the blue rash guard is trying hard to keep a straight face:eek:
and he calls it the magnetic floating elbow:eek: :eek:
Maybe you guys just arent used to the ‘dry’ mancunian humour on display (karl is from manchester hence he is ‘mancunian’)[/QUOTE]oh c’mon nick sbg teach a thing called crazy monkey :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;699368]Nick- I finally looked at it. Good grief- and forum folks wasted so much time on that silly thing-its not even wing chun-no tan sao there- no wing chun structure or dynamics there- and sadly funny(not)- on how he changes stances in motion on feet usage.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Jeeze youd think VT peeps would see it only has a similarity to Tan Sau
I agree with Joy on this one, structure dynamics etc etc - yeah it looks like it but it aint what i call Tan Sau.
VT IMHO is not defined by the shapes of the actions but what forces drive them - cant understand why people would call this Tan Sao, obviously they think in terms of how it looks :rolleyes:
No aliveness, for starters, in those drills. He’d be summarily kicked out of SBG if that were serious.
A half decent wrestler would treat that grab for the neck from outside range as a gift and go straight for the underhook. A striker would just punch him in the face. No one’s going to just stand there and act like a Dalek. (EXTERMINATE! :D)
That footwork is def. bogus … unfortunately I’ve seen worse taught seriously in TCMA.
sbg teach a thing called crazy monkey
They do, but it was invented by a South African named Rodney King. It’s actually develops good defensive skills against strikes pretty quickly, like WC is supposed to.
[QUOTE=Liddel;699481]Jeeze youd think VT peeps would see it only has a similarity to Tan Sau
I agree with Joy on this one, structure dynamics etc etc - yeah it looks like it but it aint what i call Tan Sau.
VT IMHO is not defined by the shapes of the actions but what forces drive them - cant understand why people would call this Tan Sao, obviously they think in terms of how it looks :rolleyes:
Good Pi$$ take.[/QUOTE]
Saying, as far I as know (which is very slight), the translation of Tan Sau is “palm up hand” so apart from declining your “Tan Sau my arse” title, I am in total agreement, Tan Sau is a dynamic structure, Wing Chun is a dynamic system, if you wait for anybody they will hit you, when you play the games of others you get beat.
Remember though when you take everything too seriously and stop laughing yourself, then you are truly ready to take up ************** (insert the martial art of your choice)
I have heard too many tales and seen too much from the back end of a bull over the years to say whether this is meant for real or not, though I accept Nick’s assessment as he knows the guy, all I can say is that he must have very low SELF esteem and is too concerned about the value of Wing Chun to waste his time on something so pathetic, he could have trawled through ‘YOU TUBE’ and got something much more damaging to Wing Chun, WT, VT or whatever.
Tan Sau is a quarter of all immediate solutions, it’s the ‘question’ that we are asked in reality that we have no control over and can leave us unprepared.
If you wake up to find your technique was lacking, then feel lucky and practice more.
[QUOTE=Nick Forrer;699390]Actually watching it again there are some more give aways
The guy in the blue rash guard is trying hard to keep a straight face:eek:
and he calls it the magnetic floating elbow:eek: :eek:
Maybe you guys just arent used to the ‘dry’ mancunian humour on display (karl is from manchester hence he is ‘mancunian’)[/QUOTE]
I’m not really buying that it’s bogus.
no one on this board knows exactly why the guy in blue is grinning, could be he just let a stinker.
the idea that some people would post bogus video footage of their school/class to get a ‘rise’ out of videoholics is retarded. It would only serve to misrepresent you and your school (especially the way y’all tear into it). If was meant to be funny the guy needs to go find a master of comedy and improve his skills. Also, comedy (especially parody and satire) generally has a point or ‘topic’, what is it here; making fun of internet MA videos? making fun of WC taan sau concept (which I never hear mentioned)? Making fun of disinformation?
If it was meant as bait…where’s the hook?
Nick,
In all your comments you say you ‘think’ ;
I dont know exactly why he filmed it or where its from. I think other MMAers are meant to watch it and laugh at the lame attempts of CMA people to formulate anti grappling techniques rather than just use those found in wrestling e.g. shrug and wrench, two on one against a neck tie etc.
Just a speculation, right?
I think I’d lose more respect for SBGi for posting a bogus video than teaching a bogus tech.
[QUOTE=AmanuJRY;699599]I’m not really buying that it’s bogus.
no one on this board knows exactly why the guy in blue is grinning, could be he just let a stinker.
the idea that some people would post bogus video footage of their school/class to get a ‘rise’ out of videoholics is retarded. It would only serve to misrepresent you and your school (especially the way y’all tear into it). If was meant to be funny the guy needs to go find a master of comedy and improve his skills. Also, comedy (especially parody and satire) generally has a point or ‘topic’, what is it here; making fun of internet MA videos? making fun of WC taan sau concept (which I never hear mentioned)? Making fun of disinformation?
If it was meant as bait…where’s the hook?
Nick,
In all your comments you say you ‘think’ ;
Just a speculation, right?
I think I’d lose more respect for SBGi for posting a bogus video than teaching a bogus tech.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AmanuJRY;699599]I’m not really buying that it’s bogus.
comedy (especially parody and satire) generally has a point or ‘topic’, what is it here; making fun of internet MA videos?
[/QUOTE]
At the risk of repeating myself…The point is to take the p_iss out of the practicality of WC (and by extension all TMA) against anyone half skilled in wrestling/Muay Thai
Maybe its a cultural gap but its immediately obvious to me as an Englishman that this is a parody. Maybe different cultural norms apply in Idaho. BTW thats not a dig just an observation (or speculation if you prefer).
though I accept Nick’s assessment as he knows the guy, all I can say is that he must have very low SELF esteem and is too concerned about the value of Wing Chun to waste his time on something so pathetic
Jeez, some of you guys are reading way too much into this.
They were probably just mucking around, the cameraman had a few minutes of tape left over, and they decided to do something stupid for a laugh. AS someone who seems to fancy himself as a comedian in his posts, you can deal with that, surely.
It was probly always going to be an outtake, a friend of the cameraman saw it and though it might be funny to put it up on the web.
There’s no agenda of putting down TCMA here. I’m sure Karl doesn’t give a rats about TCMA’s profile anywhere. The notion that this is part of some conspiracy to rot TCMA from within is just ridiculous.
Anyone posting regularly on this forum has no business lecturing anyone else about wasting their time on pointless activities.
[QUOTE=Nick Forrer;699666]At the risk of repeating myself…The point is to take the p_iss out of the practicality of WC (and by extension all TMA) against anyone half skilled in wrestling/Muay Thai
Maybe its a cultural gap but its immediately obvious to me as an Englishman that this is a parody. Maybe different cultural norms apply in Idaho. BTW thats not a dig just an observation (or speculation if you prefer).[/QUOTE]
Cultural norms may be sleightly different, but not that far off (being that my experience is not limited to Idaho, I do get around, and that in playing Rugby in the states I’ve had a vast amount of English, Austrailian, Kiwi, and Canuk friends to be familiar enough with English humor). I guess I just don’t like it when people pick on the handicapped.
[QUOTE=Nick Forrer;699666]At the risk of repeating myself…The point is to take the p_iss out of the practicality of WC (and by extension all TMA) against anyone half skilled in wrestling/Muay Thai
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately it didn’t quite translate. Most people took the clip seriously and thought it was another bad anti-grappling con and bad WC con.
Manchester is not really known as the home of fantastic wrestling or Muay Thai.
[QUOTE=AmanuJRY;699599]I’m not really buying that it’s bogus.
2. the idea that some people would post bogus video footage of their school/class to get a ‘rise’ out of videoholics is retarded.
[/QUOTE]
See, now that’s funny! (The people at Maxim know about comedy;) )
All I’m saying is that if you produce a video that is supposed to be humorus (but it’s kinda on the fringe, like the one in question) than it should be obvious.
Things like the sound effects, the video effects, the music…all that in Bas/Maxim’s video let the viewer know it’s to be taken lightly. When it’s like the one from Karl, where it appears to be an instructional session, and there are no sound effects, video effects, music, etc. it makes people think it’s serious.
How many people who viewed the video before Nick commented had the reaction that it was a serious video??
I’d say the first 8 posts after Lawrence all thought it was serious.
And, BTW, I’m a real light hearted guy, just ask Lawrenceofidaho or Ernie. I can’t really lighten up any more than I already am.
