OK, I am NOT an advocate of MMA, but I wanted to know if anyone has ever seen the often-touted tan-sao/punch combo that blocks and attacks at the same time used in any pro-fight? K-1, UFC, etc, has anyone ever seen this technique used anywhere by any pro-fighter? I know there was a famous boxer who used it back in the 90’s, but it was suggested he was cheating when he did this. Just curious, if its soo effective, why don’t we see it more often, in other traditions… This is NOT a “if Wing Chun is so good, how come you never see it in MMA” thread.
[QUOTE=WoodenYummy;972226]OK, I am NOT an advocate of MMA, but I wanted to know if anyone has ever seen the often-touted tan-sao/punch combo that blocks and attacks at the same time used in any pro-fight? K-1, UFC, etc, has anyone ever seen this technique used anywhere by any pro-fighter? I know there was a famous boxer who used it back in the 90’s, but it was suggested he was cheating when he did this. Just curious, if its soo effective, why don’t we see it more often, in other traditions… This is NOT a “if Wing Chun is so good, how come you never see it in MMA” thread.[/QUOTE]
Why do you care if it’s every been used in a pro fight? What does a pro fight have to do with YOUR life experience and how YOU use Wing Chun?
figures…
Exactly Couch, WHO said it has ANYTHING to do with my wing chun training? It was a question, asked to the proponents of this art, thats ALL that it was. And by the way Sanjuro, you look much better than I imagined anyone could in that tight lime-green speedo-suit. 
[QUOTE=couch;972231]Why do you care if it’s every been used in a pro fight? What does a pro fight have to do with YOUR life experience and how YOU use Wing Chun?[/QUOTE]
Exactly right Kenton:D If you looking for proof from outside of yourself, regarding a belief or faith that you have, you will never find it. The better question is, why are you looking for it outside of yourself. Let’s say we can’t find any pro fighter that has used anything like a tan/punch combo, does that mean it is a useless thing to use? If you look at it in that limited way then I guess so. The key thing is to not have a limited POV, and do not let anyone tell you what is absolutely right or absolutely wrong, because there are no absolutes in life, in combat, in anything except death, taxes and corruption in public service.
JR
[QUOTE=WoodenYummy;972271]Exactly Couch, WHO said it has ANYTHING to do with my wing chun training? It was a question, asked to the proponents of this art, thats ALL that it was. And by the way Sanjuro, you look much better than I imagined anyone could in that tight lime-green speedo-suit. ;)[/QUOTE]
I’ve been doing internal WC forms work !
again, really?
Sihing, normally I find your posts informative, but you are guilty of the same error as Couch, ASSUMING that this has something to do with MY faith in the system. And as for the “better question”, again more condescending remarks from those who know better than I, what “I” should be doing. And the icing on the cake? The line “The key thing is to not have a limited POV, and do not let anyone tell you what is absolutely right or absolutely wrong”. I may not be able to define irony, but I sure know it when I see it! lol. How is that last comment not a complete contradiction of the first? I am asking a really simple question, but apparently WC is practiced by alot of armchair psychologists these days! All I want to know is if anyone has ever seen it used, as I mentioned there was a boxer (name started with a V I think) in the 90’s who used it, so I was wondering if anyone had seen it in any other televised fights. I foolishly thought that I could avoid watching EVERY video of a fight ever made to determine this for my own by simply asking other people who are into this sort of thing. I have never made any comment to the effect that if something has not been used in a Pro-fight that it must somehow be useless. But thanks for the quick psycho-analysis just the same. Sanjuro, right on, I knew that internal training served a useful purpose! LMFAO
[QUOTE=WoodenYummy;972305]All I want to know is if anyone has ever seen it used, as I mentioned there was a boxer (name started with a V I think) in the 90’s who used it, so I was wondering if anyone had seen it in any other televised fights. I foolishly thought that I could avoid watching EVERY video of a fight ever made to determine this for my own by simply asking other people who are into this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]
That’s NOT what you asked in the first place.
And to put “Let the flaming begin” as well as “I am not an advocate of MMA” in your posts leads me to believe you were after something completely different than what you wrote in the quoted text above.
So, in my opinion, you should take what you wrote in the above quoted text and paste it into your initial post so that EVERYONE has a clear view as to what you’re after.
But Couch, this is my original post “OK, I am NOT an advocate of MMA, but I wanted to know if anyone has ever seen the often-touted tan-sao/punch combo that blocks and attacks at the same time used in any pro-fight?” From there on, those of you that are responding like this are reading what YOU want into it. I have been posting here for over a year, and NEVER ONCE made the arguments about why Wing Chun is not represented in MMA, I don’t care about MMA, I don’t study MMA, I study Wing Chun. I know there are alot of trolls on this site, but I am not one of them, so I apologize if I did not word this the “correct” way, but my question remains the same, and NO there is no ulterior motive here! I specifically stated (the FIRST thing I stated for that matter was) that I am NOT an advocate of MMA. I don’t know how I could’ve been more clear, so I take my apology back!
Couch, did you really just write that blog on your page in response to this thread? Fine for addressing the point, but completely mis represented where I was coming from. This happened the first time I ever posted here, I said I studied “traditional” WC (cause thats what my old school called it) then I proceeded to get attacked by a bunch of clowns on here because of what they “read into” my statements. This is being made out to be MUCH more sinisiter than the innocent question it actually WAS! Which by the way, NO ONE has answered.
Honestly, I think the “better question” is: why is this the type of response I am getting when I ask if anyone has every seen X used in a fight. I think that may be a bit more telling about others “faith” and “beliefs” then my orignal post. You guys should consider running for office with answers like this.
I don’t recall seeing this combo used in boxing or MMA matches, though to be honest I don’t watch much of either.
IMO parries correlating (to varying degrees) to larp and pak sao are more common.
IMO, and generalising, boxing relies more on closer covers with the arms only extending for straight punches. Rather than “block and strike at the same time”, boxing is more about “evade and punch at the same time”.
In wrestling/MMA you are not looking to give opponents too much of your arms either lest you be over/underhooked, 2 on 1 ed, etc.
If you title a thread “let the flaming begin” and you start getting flamed, it’s probably disingenuous to start getting all upset about it.
Very over-rated move, anyway. Simultaneous block & strike with lop, or with pak, or with garn is more high percentage - and even these moves have their limitations. You won’t hit them very often. But tan da?! Not really high percentage in all out fighting.
So tell us, if you’re not trolling with a flame in hand, who is the boxer who made this technique so big in the 1990’s?
And sanjuro, ouch…!!! :rolleyes: :o 
After all those hot babes you’ve posted photos of - you go with this?! :eek:
[QUOTE=WoodenYummy;972336]Couch, did you really just write that blog on your page in response to this thread? Fine for addressing the point, but completely mis represented where I was coming from. This happened the first time I ever posted here, I said I studied “traditional” WC (cause thats what my old school called it) then I proceeded to get attacked by a bunch of clowns on here because of what they “read into” my statements. This is being made out to be MUCH more sinisiter than the innocent question it actually WAS![/QUOTE]
If you write an article or book, you are responsible for getting your point across properly in the first place. You can’t go back after writing an article and say, “You guys are reading into things too much!” It was you who misrepresented yourself.
At least this thread was good for something - it inspired me to write an article on the blog.
Either way - it all works out. Good luck with your search for the Tan Da boxer.
Oh Anerlich, not you too! OK, so I’m not making many friends today. I labeled this thread that way cause I knew before I even typed a single word that a bunch of people would get all bunched up over this. But I’m not that fond of caring what others think, so be it. The Boxer I mentioned was really famous, I think he had a brother who fought too with the same last name, it’s not Vargas is it? Anyway, it was someone with a V, and yeah, he would throw his jab at the same time the other arm was up blocking an incoming strike. I swear it was on the cover of an SI issue or something. Not exactly the same, but a similar concept. I’m not upset for getting flamed, I saw it coming (as the title implied), but I was bothered that no one offered up an answer (until now, so thanks). I agree there are different games being played in boxing and MMA, are you suggesting that it isn’t a good fit for an MMA encounter? IF this is what you are saying, is it fair to assume that we woudn’t want to commit two arms in that scenario as the other guy may go for a takedown? What is the reasoning? I’m trying NOT to read anything into your comments, so I am simply asking.
Sometimes, the people on this forum are so predictable, though it may not be their own fault. You see a person’s initial question, and before reading any of the comments you can guess which direction its going FAST! Now I’m not ripping on anyone, as I have read alot of insightful comments on here in the past (and a few funny ones). It just comes across as really clique-ish whenever someone uses the wrong word and everyone jumps on them, its like if you don’t know the secret handshake everyone knows you’re an imposter and attacks. Well thanks just the same for all of your input… Oh yeah, and if anyone DOES come across a clip of someone using this let me know, for my own personal interest of course. Thanks!
I think it was a valid first question.
And no, I have never seen tan da applied in K1, UFC, Bellator, WEC, Sengoku etc etc. Probably, because tan da doesn’t work. I think the same can be said of most WC techniques, the way they are sold to the masses at least.
If they worked, we would have seen them. Additionally, we would see them being taught in progressive MMA schools.
Suki
***n.b. the context I refer to is one where you have a reasonably skilled opponent.
Victor, “flame in hand” that sounds dirty! I don’t remember his name, but I definately remember seeing it (it WASN’T a hallucination), I wish I could remember it (college years are a haze), all I know for sure is that he is from a family of boxers, either his cousins or brothers also fought (and were famous). The more I think of it, the more I wanna say it IS one of the Vargas’… Anyway, THEY weren’t my point, I was just illustrating that I have seen it at least once before, and I was hoping to hear of a few others. I see the point about the other block/attacks having better likelihood in reality though. Couch, I agree, only I wasn’t writing an article OR book, I posted a question on a webpage, HARDLY the same criteria… and regardless I still stand by my initial wording. BTW, I read your blog, and if nothing else, this farse I seem to have created might lead to some further discussion there, so good for you! I have no animosity toward any of you, but sitting back and watching this occur is a bit comical, we’ve “fallen” into the politics of wing chun, even though that was the furthest thing from my mind when we started. So who is known to use these other block/attack combos mentioned in televised fights? I’m just curious as I’d like to see it for myself, and see in what situations they try to pull it off. There, was that acceptably worded?
FWIW, there is a rebuttal of Couch’s MMA post on the blog (link below).
Suki
Tan dar is used all of the time in boxing. Wingchunners are notorious for not training like they fight so you will see something that is more aesthetic than functional. Look hard and you will find it.