[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1151608]A simple Jab is easy to deal with using Pak Sau or Tan Sau… but how would you know the opponent is throwing a simple Jab?
The Jab can be a feint, followed by combos, followed by a kick, turn into an elbow, turn into a hook, followed by a take down etc etc etc… or it can really be a Jab!
So, how effective is the Pak Sau and the Tan Sau against the changes? Something to think about ;)[/QUOTE]
Wow, that’s really inspiring. So I need to think about what would be happening next…
ok, so that’s way I found outside blocks to work better because I’ll be out of his centerline after an outside Pak or Taan, while I found inside blocks to be harder to apply because I always got hit by the followups.
So if I want to go inside gate moves, I must either thrust horse and attack or be prepared for the other hand.
Other problems I faced are double jabs and combos like jab-hook (same hand).
Any advice on those situations?
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1151643]Use your feet.
The jab is a range finder, if you stay on the end of it you will get hit with the following shots. If he steps in and out of range you can use kicks to the lead leg to break the rythmn, but whether you intercept with kicks or arms you should be looking to close the gap stepping in on angles. As a previous poster pointed out, in reality you don’t know its going to be a jab so your response has to be multifunctional. I find angling and driving forward have the highest % success rate for me, but you need to really work the footwork and be able to change direction rapidly (especially when you train with people who do MMA and use the jab to set up the shoot / change in level). Only my 10 cents[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that, man.
I also find footwork to be crucial in dealing with those situations. One strategy me and my friend was trying is to use the Mun Sao as a measurement to keep yourself just outside of the jab range and as soon as the series of punches end, trust horse forward with a Kwun Sao to control opponent’s hands (as taught by sifu Duncan Leung).
My problem is that I can’t thrust forward quickly enough. I think that’s because I put my body weight on heels instead of toes.
Tan sau is NOT designed for blocking hooks as commonly thought in Wing Chun. The reason why most people struggle to make it work only proves this. Certain guys, because they have been taught that it IS for blocking hooks, start to add other stuff in which only moves even further from the original idea.
I also find footwork to be crucial in dealing with those situations. One strategy me and my friend was trying is to use the Mun Sao as a measurement to keep yourself just outside of the jab range and as soon as the series of punches end, trust horse forward with a Kwun Sao to control opponent’s hands (as taught by sifu Duncan Leung).
My problem is that I can’t thrust forward quickly enough. I think that’s because I put my body weight on heels instead of toes.[/QUOTE]
Some comments if they’re helpful would be, 1) don’t wait for the puches to stop before moving, get in as soon as you detect the punch being thrown (angle and have your hands up obviously or you’ll walk onto the end of the jab / hook / whatever). 2) weighting your heels doesn’t necessarily slow you down if you practice your footwork in an explosive fashion 3) don’t look for classical perfection in your footwork, when you train you overtrain extreme positions, when you apply you can relax them. 4) in any situation if the solution you have doesn’t work there are always two possibilities, firstly it may be the wrong solution to the problem or secondly it may be the optimal solution but your execution is lacking. Sometimes it isn’t another solution thats needed its just more training to improve what you are already doing.
As we’ve never met I have no way to guage your experience etc so sorry if this seems a bit like teaching granny to suck eggs.
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1151889]Some comments if they’re helpful would be, 1) don’t wait for the puches to stop before moving, get in as soon as you detect the punch being thrown (angle and have your hands up obviously or you’ll walk onto the end of the jab / hook / whatever). 2) weighting your heels doesn’t necessarily slow you down if you practice your footwork in an explosive fashion 3) don’t look for classical perfection in your footwork, when you train you overtrain extreme positions, when you apply you can relax them. 4) in any situation if the solution you have doesn’t work there are always two possibilities, firstly it may be the wrong solution to the problem or secondly it may be the optimal solution but your execution is lacking. Sometimes it isn’t another solution thats needed its just more training to improve what you are already doing.
As we’ve never met I have no way to guage your experience etc so sorry if this seems a bit like teaching granny to suck eggs.[/QUOTE]
A well thought out and logical answer!
If more people on this forum had the same ideas then the world would be a better place IMO.
[QUOTE=nunchuckguy;1151881]Other problems I faced are double jabs and combos like jab-hook (same hand).
Any advice on those situations?[/QUOTE]
My opinion only… force the opponent to deal with you, instead you dealing with him.
(in the words of Sifu Wan Kam Leung of Practical Wing Chun HK)
Low level Martial Arts: just strike, or just defend.
Medium level MA: defend then strike
High level MA: simultaneous defend and strike
Top level MA: attack then defend
As soon as the opponent twitches, don’t wait for the jab to surface, attack him (while covering his fist, elbows etc, of course). Then you don’t need to deal with his jab/hook/combo to begin with.
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1151890]Would be genuinely interested to hear your view on how to defend hooks Phil.[/QUOTE]
Treat a tight hook like an elbow. I’m replying from me cell at the present and it’ll take too long for me to give a proper reply. Maybe I’ll make a short clip. Btw, please excuse typos if any. Auto correct is in control. Lol
[RIGHT][/RIGHT][QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1151893]My opinion only… force the opponent to deal with you, instead you dealing with him.
(in the words of Sifu Wan Kam Leung of Practical Wing Chun HK)
Low level Martial Arts: just strike, or just defend.
Medium level MA: defend then strike
High level MA: simultaneous defend and strike
Top level MA: attack then defend
As soon as the opponent twitches, don’t wait for the jab to surface, attack him (while covering his fist, elbows etc, of course). Then you don’t need to deal with his jab/hook/combo to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you but Top level MA can get you a legal case.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1151894]Treat a tight hook like an elbow. I’m replying from me cell at the present and it’ll take too long for me to give a proper reply. Maybe I’ll make a short clip. Btw, please excuse typos if any. Auto correct is in control. Lol[/QUOTE]
How will you (gen) know what to do??? There is no solid answer and there are too many factors to consider that could change ones whole perspective!
Whats the point in making a clip unless you get one of your training partners to rip into you with no holding back and should he throw an arcing punch within the onslaught, at best, you can say “well that’s how I dealt with it that time.”
Have any of you guys actually had a proper fight?
Ving Tsun is not kick boxing! We don’t have katas where one action is in response to a certain attack!
WSL said that if for 95% of the time if you are attacking somebody then for 95% of the time they must be defending themselves which makes it difficult to attack back. This is a conceptual idea. What we learn in the training hall should give us the tools to improve our chances in a fight but to say that I would move this way or that way or use this action or that action against an opponent that may or may not throw a hook is f***ing ridiculous! :mad:
What’s wrong with training against semi-isolated techniques? The hook could come out at above-average regularity (for training purposes) amidst more general attacks?
If we followed your hard-line approach you would only rarely train your kicks, since it is “common sense” we keep our feet on the ground.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1151897]…What we learn in the training hall should give us the tools to improve our chances in a fight …
GH[/QUOTE]
So would you mind sharing what tools you use?
And if I ask what tools you would possibly use IN CASE the opponent throw a jab/hook/elbow, etc., would that be a valid question to you?
[QUOTE=CFT;1151906]What’s wrong with training against semi-isolated techniques? The hook could come out at above-average regularity (for training purposes) amidst more general attacks?
If we followed your hard-line approach you would only rarely train your kicks, since it is “common sense” we keep our feet on the ground.[/QUOTE]
For a beginner yes! We need these isolated techniques at the start to get the student used to certain actions, reponses and instill courage. Once one is able to engage in gor sau/sparring then then everything is thrown together. How one responds in sparring or a real fight cannot be chrystalized! Up until this point its hard work, repetition and co-operation between two like minded training partners.
You wouldn’t drill a tan sau against a linear punch unless your idea of Wing Chun is extremely flawed!
