Hi all.
Has anybody have any experience training in Tai Chi and Wing Chun? MySifu told me that they are very complementary to one another in terms of techniques etc. I’d be particularly interested in hearing from anyone that studied Chang style Tai Chi, but any TC styles input would be great.
Seeya 
Hi Mtod1,
I’ve been practicing Yang taiji for about 6 months now and wing chun for about 4 years, so my opinion is based on that limited experience.
Taiji techniques do not use muscle. Defensive movements absorb the opponent’s energy, which generally means they are “drawing in” a person’s attack. At the same time, offensive movements resemble strikes of a whip; you take the opponent’s energy into you, and redirect it into your attacking hand for the strike. Footwork and rooting are keys to generating additional power as well as efficiently retaining the power that your opponent has “given to you”.
Push hands is the “sensitivity training” of tai chi. The hand and foot movements create a “wave” of energy that moves from one individual to the other. One is always “offensive”, and pushing into the opponent, while the “defensive” player is drawing in the push and redirecting it to an offensive use. In double push hands, each person’s second hand is placed on the elbow of the opponent’s first hand. I use the word “energy” in its most exoteric sense, and I don’t mean to imply that taiji practice is more mystical or generates any more energy/power/“qi” than wing chun.
The techniques are slightly more “flashy” than in wing chun, but they are equal in effectiveness when you see the theory and important points behind those techniques.
That’s how I’ve seen tai chi, I hope it helps you. As for how it’s different from wing chun, that’s best left up to you.
IMO- the body mechanics of WC and TCC are quite different.
Real top masters can make something work for them but implementing both for martial purposes in the reflex system of beginners is problematic. I see no problem in using taichi for relaxation purposes while learning wing chun for martial purposes.
tai chi benificial
i’ve done wing chun for seven years and yang tai chi for five. I find them very complementary. there is a wing chun saying that goes, “the hard and soft of wing chun”. for example kwan sau (tan sau and bong sau done at the same time), can be done hard (deflecting / pressing) or it can be soft (redirecting / absorbing).
I find that tai chi is very helpful in helping to develope the soft side of wing chun, the redirecting side. at the least it helps keep me from getting to hard and forceful with techniques. it helps me be able to flow better, in sparring and chi sau. it helps keep me soft and not rigid. also when i can do the soft the hard is a lot easier too.
I don’t mix the techniques of the two styles however. Its like tai chi helps remind me to flow and be soft also in my wing chun. turning stance (choh ma, sitting horse) can be used in the same way tai chi uses the rocking of the bow stance and the arrow stance. I don’t use tai chi for fighting, i just use the softness gained from it to accent the hard. i don’t think the combat applications of yang tai chi are especially great, at least compared to my wing chun. if I was to use tai chi for combat I would try to find a place to learn chen style.
practicing tai chi also gives you mental calm that is needed in high stress situations and combat. also tai chi is one of the best ways help you develope chi that is benificial in all areas of life.
my sifu’s sifu did many styles. he was a expert in ba gua chang and tai chi, along with wing chun. and my sifu just learned wing chun and tai chi.
but above all wing chun is my number 1 style, tai chi is my second, its just a handy extra. not nessesary but benificial.
good luck
Tai Chi and Wing Chun
I always find it funny how many hardcore Wing Chun people also do or have studied Tai Chi. Actually not so much funny as interesting. I have been doing Wing Chun 14 or 15 years now, the system I was originally taught was pretty soft, though nothing like Tai Chi. I only began studying Yang Tai Chi maybe 1 1/2 years ago. I really liked it for the health and relaxation part it offered, though Dr. Chow teaches the martial side as well. Which I enjoy, but I like the Wing Chun take on the martial side better, just my opinion.
But I remember a story which caught my ears, he said that there are some Tai Chi people (can’t remember which style of Tai Chi) in China that calls Wing Chun southern Tai Chi. I found that interesting. Hope I didn’t bore anyone, I think I have told that story already…LOL.
Yuanfen is correct. Both WCK and TJQ have (different) ways of re-programming the body to align and move in certain ways, and mastering just one, without conflicts from another, takes incredible work (though you can imp one, or both, more easily). In terms of experts, WCK is a remarkable system and experts in it seem to be able to use the WCK engine within the forms of other arts to good effect. But its still the WCK engine.
If you enjoy both, do both, but neither benefits from the other any more than concentrating on one alone (and certain individuals will better suit one than the other).
RR
Its not all that different though is it?
Wing Chun & Tai Chi similarities
*Elbows sunk (not all W.C lineages focus on elbows in the center)
*Slightly contracted sacrum (I think) …well anus
*Stick with what comes, follow what goes, strike when there is an opening philosphy
*Direct incoming power to the ground ie rooting
*straight back
*chin slightly down
*chest in and concave- as opposed to out
*short range power
*Tongue pressing lightly against the roof of your mouth
Of course there is a lot that is completely different. But as far as 2 different martial arts go, they are pretty bloody similar.
RR
What do you mean by different engines?
I always find it funny how many hardcore Wing Chun people also do or have studied Tai Chi. Actually not so much funny as interesting.
Yeah. And they are always quick to say, “…but we don’t NEED Tai Chi…but I keep them SEPARATE…”, etc.
Truth be told, those Tai Chi guys have weak ankles and they don’t know how to punch. 
If they can embarass our method, it’s not through their decadent forms, but through their understanding of investment in loss.
–I always find it funny how many hardcore Wing Chun people also do or have studied Tai Chi.–azwingchun
Funny?
Understand, and go beyond funny.
Master your WCK.
Master your Taiji.
This is the way of clarity.
Hi all,
I just wish I was clever enough to know if [Censored] was joking or being serious =)
While there are many similarities between taiji and wing chun on a visual level (like those pointed out by Miles Teg), there is one glaring difference I have felt and it is an absence of EQUALIZATION. Among the taiji people I’ve practiced with, the concept of forward pressure (as opposed to pressing forward, then drawing in) was hard to get used to. As a result, in free form push hands, when they push into me, I can cut straight in and veer them off the centerline with a push/punch of my own, just using structure. And when they do draw my attack inward, because I’m giving constant forward pressure, I end up hitting them more than half the time anyway.
Of course, I realize that I have not worked with a large cross-section of taiji players, and my experiences are my own and no one elses. I’m not trying to step on any toes.
the concepts are the same…using deflection of force (don’t like to use the word energy as it implies “chi”) with soft overcoming hard unlike more aggressive and brute styles
however wing chun keeps elbows in and the stance is definitely different
tai chi is also more open palm while wing chun is fist oriented. and tai chi utilizes internal enegy and (no matter what wing chun people think) wing chun has none whatsoever.
tai chi also has much wider stances while wing chun is narrower
but many hands seem similar but then again you can find parallels in any martial art as there are only a finite number of ways the human body can move
and lastly tai chi takes a long time to learn
wing chun get you in fighting shape in no time 
Originally posted by EmptyCup
tai chi utilizes internal enegy and (no matter what wing chun people think) wing chun has none whatsoever.
You should come and visit us sometime, we’ll change your mind.
i doubt it
i have never heard of any branch of wing chun which utilizes internal energy for combat the way mantis, hung, tai chi, etc does
and thinking about your dan tien while doing siu leem tau doesn’t count as i know many wing chun branches have that type of thing
it’s just not part of the system. maybe in the past but not now. if you do have that then it’s not “real” wing chun
go visit a hung ga kwoon first and ask them to show you how they use their energy in their ging
or a tai chi, bagua or hsing yi master
if your chi can be utilized that way i will most definitely visit you…but again it would not be wing chun
wing chun is a purely external martial art. just like jeet kune do practioners cannot say they have internal aspects
What is your definition of internal though?
The fact that W.C can generate and take a lot of power with out tensing the muscles, and in fact the less muscle you learn to use the more powerful you become, suggests to me that you can call W.C internal. I am stronger with relaxed intention than with full muscular force.
The power comes from how you focus your mind.
Whole body oneness is also a part of W.C which is one of the things that makes Tai CHi powerful and internal, because it takes a certain mind set to do that which takes practice.
Or are you talking about the flow of Chi exclusively?
Different W.Cs have varying focus on external and internal development
i’m talking about beyond just muscles and deflection of force
yes i’m talking about chi.
most wing chun people dont’ seem to understand that wing chun’s concepts of softness and deflection of force have nothing to do whatsoever with chi as it’s found in other styles. and for those who think chi is the same as intention they are mistaken.
not to mention that in practice wing chun is as purely physical as anything else…blocks are about force on force, the use of muscular strength, etc
it’s not as “flowing” and graceful as it seems in chi sau or in theory
EC
Do I have to lesson you on your tai chi and your wing chun… again?
if I recall correctly…last time it was YOU who got told
my dear whippy…have you went and educated yourself on that yet? or have you forgotten?
tsk, tsk…for someone who knows nothing about any of the tai chi systems you sure seem to talk alot about it
save your lessons for yourself…we both know you need 'em
Some put it quite nicely on a different thread…
“Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt”
OK no I dont much about what `chi’ does or what it achieves in a fighting sense, but your statement:
“not to mention that in practice wing chun is as purely physical as anything else…blocks are about force on force, the use of muscular strength, etc”
..is in accurate. We train to learn to use our muscles less and less until its out thoughts that control the action and create the power.
Tai Chi people are very well aligned, positioned and use force efficiently. I think this is one of the reasons they can generate a lot of force. If there is some magic electric stuff that fills their hands and charges out to make a powerful blow, then what need is there for good alignment etc.?
Why does LOOKING graceful have to have anything to do with chi?
show me a wing chun fight
then tell me how it differs from a fight using another style
when it comes down to it there’s really no difference. we just have different movements. if you use your hands and legs to block muscles are being used and force is being used. try doing tan sau to block a punch without using any muscular aid…it’s like trying to block with a kleenex
if you ever meet a tai chi practioner who is a true master of the syle, he can show you how posture matters not. how force does not need to be used to injure. disregarding blocking, can you honestly tell me you can hurt an opponent without punching with muscle and force? even when hitting vital points it’s not you who use less force to achieve the damage, it’s because the points are more vulnerable.
if a wing chun practioner can break granite without brute force ( i don’t know if that would work anyhow ), and sent opponents flying and bruised by softly touching them then I will admit I was wrong about they style. But I have yet to see that as part of any wing chun curriculum
and the flowing comment i meant in real fights wing chun movements are not as graceful…they are just like any other system’s blocks and attacks
a punch is a punch. force and intention.
i really dont’ see how a wing chun one is supposedly different