I think MMA has started a new fad. Everyone is jumping on the banwagon. If you don’t do full contact it’s useless. When ninjutsu was big if you didn’t know how to use a knife and climb a tree you weren’t a real warrior.
I think these guy are learning a lot from this training. They moved well. They had good defense quick hands and good kicks. These guys I’m sure have day jobs they can’t go at it ufc style all the time. Come into work with cuts and black eyes.
I think these guys could handle a street fighter or kung fu who isn’t sparring regularly. I think they could also hang with that guys boxing clip put up here if they can use kick and traps and stuff.
If they want to do a mma fight they should probably increase the intensity of their training.
I also find it hard to believe that all these people talking about full contact are doing it. Let everyone who’s talking put up a clip of your sparring. I have already .
Ok, that was not exactly brimming over with realism. I hope that was just a light warm-up or something and not intended to be taken as actual ‘sparring.’
[QUOTE=anerlich;770313]Criticising the guys in the vid because they aren’t trying to take each other’s heads off is like watching a clip of two BJJers going light or practising their mobile games and then criticising them for not engaging properly. You’re looking at one aspect of thier practice and assuming it is all like that.[/QUOTE]
It’s not so much about how hard as how.. To me, its about training realistic distance and timing while working entering and finishing.. Kind of like Fan Sao..
That said.. Folks who do train regularly with hard contact, in hard sparring can also do so fairly safely and they WILL reap the rewards of such training.
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;770337]I think MMA has started a new fad. Everyone is jumping on the banwagon. If you don’t do full contact it’s useless. When ninjutsu was big if you didn’t know how to use a knife and climb a tree you weren’t a real warrior.
I think these guy are learning a lot from this training. They moved well. They had good defense quick hands and good kicks. These guys I’m sure have day jobs they can’t go at it ufc style all the time. Come into work with cuts and black eyes.
I think these guys could handle a street fighter or kung fu who isn’t sparring regularly. I think they could also hang with that guys boxing clip put up here if they can use kick and traps and stuff.
If they want to do a mma fight they should probably increase the intensity of their training.
I also find it hard to believe that all these people talking about full contact are doing it. Let everyone who’s talking put up a clip of your sparring. I have already .[/QUOTE]
First of all WC is NOT MT.
Second, the typical boxer and MT “light sparring” is not applicable to WC, why?
Totally different power production and use of combinations.
Third, there is “light sparring” that still gets your partner to react and there is “light sparring” in which your strikes get no reaction from your partner.
That is the issue.
If you think you can do better, then back it up guys.
[QUOTE=unkokusai;770341]Ok, that was not exactly brimming over with realism. I hope that was just a light warm-up or something and not intended to be taken as actual ‘sparring.’[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=YungChun;770362]It’s not so much about how hard as how.. To me, its about training realistic distance and timing while working entering and finishing.. Kind of like Fan Sao..
That said.. Folks who do train regularly with hard contact, in hard sparring can also do so fairly safely and they WILL reap the rewards of such training.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;770363]First of all WC is NOT MT.
Second, the typical boxer and MT “light sparring” is not applicable to WC, why?
Totally different power production and use of combinations.
Third, there is “light sparring” that still gets your partner to react and there is “light sparring” in which your strikes get no reaction from your partner.
That is the issue.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Edmund;770369]If you think you can do better, then back it up guys.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
Missing the point aren’t you?
I am from kyokushin, not a week ( I wont; say day, that is silly) went by that bare knuckle hard contact sparring was NOT part of the workout.
Gloves were used when training head shots and YES, they train head shots in Kyokushin:
Gloved with fist, open had with no-gloves.
No punching to face is strickly competition oriented training.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;770298]It’s not the fact that they spar every day that is the reason for them to go lighter, but the fact that they compete every couple of weeks.
Going light with each other allows them to recover from their competitions.
Going heavy on the pads allows them to go heavy without sustaining injuries between competitions.[/QUOTE]
Right. The other thing is that when people either compete or go heavy in sparring regularly, they develop movement “habits” consistent with that intensity (fighting environment) so when they “slow down” they still move in the same ways (so they are reinforcing “good” movement habits even when going slow). When you go about it the other way, start with slo mo, you move in ways that aren’t “good” (which you can get away with because you arenot being punished for them) and reinforce those poor habits.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;770376]Right. The other thing is that when people either compete or go heavy in sparring regularly, they develop movement “habits” consistent with that intensity (fighting environment) so when they “slow down” they still move in the same ways (so they are reinforcing “good” movement habits even when going slow). When you go about it the other way, start with slo mo, you move in ways that aren’t “good” (which you can get away with because you arenot being punished for them) and reinforce those poor habits.[/QUOTE]
One can argue that, systems such as boxing and MT that stress minimal combinations - jab/cross, jab/cross/hook/low round kick etc.
That stress combinations that aren’t TYPICALLY based on opponent reaction but opponent position, can “get away” with lighter sparring.
Systems that tend to base their training on “excessive” combinations and "sensitivity, like WC or Kenpo for example, for them it is even MORE CRUCIAL to go hard enough to get a reaction from the partner so that TRUE sequences and foot work are engrained in training.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;770378]One can argue that, systems such as boxing and MT that stress minimal combinations - jab/cross, jab/cross/hook/low round kick etc.
That stress combinations that aren’t TYPICALLY based on opponent reaction but opponent position, can “get away” with lighter sparring.
[/QUOTE]
I know what you are getting at, but I’d say that those"combinations" were derived in the first place from fighting (they took those things that really consistently worked, in fighting or heavy sparring). My view is that these combos are based on opponent reaction (you throw the cross when it is open).
Systems that tend to base their training on “excessive” combinations and "sensitivity, like WC or Kenpo for example, for them it is even MORE CRUCIAL to go hard enough to get a reaction from the partner so that TRUE sequences and foot work are engrained in training.
My view that that functional arts don’t have excessive combinations - they can’t due to the high stress nature of fighting. Those things develop precisely because people are practicing unrealistically (without that stress).
My view that that functional arts don’t have excessive combinations - they can’t due to the high stress nature of fighting. Those things develop precisely because people are practicing unrealistically (without that stress).[/QUOTE]
Missing the point aren’t you?
I am from kyokushin, not a week ( I wont; say day, that is silly) went by that bare knuckle hard contact sparring was NOT part of the workout.
Gloves were used when training head shots and YES, they train head shots in Kyokushin:
Gloved with fist, open had with no-gloves.
No punching to face is strickly competition oriented training.[/QUOTE]
You said they weren’t WC sparring the right way.
Show them up and post a clip doing it the right way.
Put gloves on if you like.
[QUOTE=Edmund;770383]You said they weren’t WC sparring the right way.
Show them up and post a clip doing it the right way.
Put gloves on if you like.
Let’s see the hard stuff.[/QUOTE]
I’ll get right on that, in the mean while, explain how ME sparring hard is gonna change the fact that they AREN’T and all the is wrong with them not doing it ?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;770149]The thing about sparring is that, if you don’t put enough power in your strikes to at least get a reaction from your partner, everything will be out of context.
Combos will be artificial and will not play out the same as they do with real power being present.
Timing will be different, endurance, footwork, head work , etc.
You don’t have to go “damage hard”, but at least hard enough to make him/her react in the correct way.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;770385]I’ll get right on that, in the mean while, explain how ME sparring hard is gonna change the fact that they AREN’T and all the is wrong with them not doing it ?[/QUOTE]
I’m sure they could go harder in the future, if they saw all these right things you are talking about.
So that’s why I suggest you do what you’re advocating, video it and put a clip up of it.
I wonder if it would be possible to put together a fight clip that would satisfy the whole group.. :eek: LOL
You’d have to have long range highly mobile footwork with bouncy bounce..
You’d have to have traditional grounded WCK footwork…
You’d have to be locked in one position like a statue..
You’d have to use non “Modified Wing Chun” kicks..
You’d have to use “Modified Wing Chun” kicks..
You’d have to use Western Boxing strikes…
You’d have to use WCK strikes…
You’d have to stick…
You’d have to bob and weave…
You’d have to make hard contact…
You’d have to make no contact…
You’d have to eventually take it to the ground…
You’d have to roll…
You’d have to win both standing and on the ground, from guard and from the mount…With a tap and also with a choke–a KO from close range and from long range…and lastly by polite agreement, for the no contact folks…
I wonder if it would be possible to put together a fight clip that would satisfy the whole group.. :eek: LOL
You’d have to have long range highly mobile footwork with bouncy bounce..
You’d have to have traditional grounded WCK footwork…
You’d have to be locked in one position like a statue..
You’d have to use non “Modified Wing Chun” kicks..
You’d have to use “Modified Wing Chun” kicks..
You’d have to use Western Boxing strikes…
You’d have to use WCK strikes…
You’d have to stick…
You’d have to bob and weave…
You’d have to make hard contact…
You’d have to make no contact…
You’d have to eventually take it to the ground…
You’d have to roll…
You’d have to win both standing and on the ground, from guard and from the mount…With a tap and also with a choke–a KO from close range and from long range…and lastly by polite agreement, for the no contact folks…
:eek: LOL