Hiram out of left field
I am a little better looking than Fukien, despite my older age and you need some better computer hacking lessons since you’re way off.
Now please be done with your fence sitting and add to the mess. After all, we can see you leaning onto one side. Jump down Hiram and tell us your a senior martial artist and less than a year representative also.
Please Ignore me!
I DONT know “PRETTY MUCH” everybody in Southern Praying Mantis, especially since some dont get involved in any mediums privately or publicly.
PEE WUSSY ELECTRONIC UNCLE STF
The Master of the Month Club.
Step right up…get yer new GM here!
No Tradition or Protocol!
“Represent” any style as you want…and only in six short months!!!
[ taboo reference deleted ]
[This message was edited by KFO Admin on 09-03-01 at 07:39 AM.]
there are weaknesses in every system:
But you have to be able to take advantage of them, otherwise, there’s no point in knowing the weaknesses! And this argument about Wing CHun vs. Southern Praying Mantis:
The two systems are similar accept for the fact that SPM guys only let project their power forward and are strong in the center. In Wing Chun, they prefer being at a 45 degree angle as opposed to facing the opponent center line to center line. It doesnt matter which system iz better. Whoever iz better at what they do will win the fight. :rolleyes:
Hungmei
Hungmei,
Did your read my reply to your post concerning my “window shopping”? If not, please do. It’s the 12th post down in this topic.
I am, by the way, terribly and genuinely interested in SPM. That is why I have been asking questions about it.
I do not understand why my simple questions have stirred up so much touchiness on this forum.
Read my above post (addressed to you/no. 12) before jumping to any futher conclusions please. My post to Bruce Campbell written above that may also be useful to you in understanding my actual point of view.
I am simply not the “troll” you may think I am.
I wish you the best.
Sincerely,
Todd Bringewatt
may the force be with you
Who is this Hungmei person and who is his Sifu?
I just read a post Hungmei printed about me on the Wing Chun board under the topic I started there entitled: “Wing Chun vs. Southern Praying Mantis.”
Hungmei’s post is the filthiest piece of classless garbage I have ever cared to read – in a piece of writing regarding me as a person. Unbelievable. Talk about internet bravery.
Here it is:
The guy who goes by the name “toddbringewatt” is a total waste product loser. He tried the same inflammatory bullshit on the SPM page and got shut down.
This clown is part of a group of ‘Trekkie Trolls’ who never make a post that contributes anything other than discord.
Fukien, and his electronically created alter ego ‘Uncle’ ‘Still Thinking Follower’ are two other kiddies playing at pulling strings.
‘Totalbraindeadboy’s’ question about what system is superior should read you guys onto the fact that he’s an absolute idiot who squats to pee and is looking to provoke a dispute.
As for Fukien and his ‘Uncle’ they can’t even cite to their Sifu or lineage since it seems that ‘video tape correspondence students’ have a hard time getting answers from their television screens . John"
No one on the Wing Chun board has treated me with this sort of disrespect. To the contrary, they have been nothing but perfectly helpful, intelligent gentlemen and have responded to the exact same post as I placed here with nothing but interest and information. If this is any reflection on their art I’m beginning to think of studying Wing Chun.
If the treatment I have recieved on this board by its members is any reflection of SPM as an art I feel like running for the hills screaming. I am certain this is not the case however.
Apparently I touched a sore spot that rekindled some old politics unintentionally. I am sorry to have created this effect. But come on, people! I am not your enemy. I am actually a potential student of yours who wishes to learn more about your seemingly valuable art.
Hats off and praise to Steve Richards for handling himself in a manner consistent with the wisdom and legacy of Kung Fu. Well done, Steve! And good tidings.
I urge the members of SPM here to take some responsibility for the loose cannons and hot collars which dare to speak in the name of SPM (an art of balance, tolerance, wisdom and peace) and in doing so endanger the future survival of a great tradition.
The treatment I have recieved here is shameful!
Sincerely,
Todd Bringewatt
may the force be with you
Hungie-Bear
“This clown is part of a group of ‘Trekkie Trolls’ who never make a post that contributes anything other than discord.”
I am not the one who posts “announcements” and then gets his knickers in a twist because everyone did not immediately bow and say “Yes Si-Fu”.
BTW, you were not able to point out any lies in my posts, eh?
“The guy who goes by the name “toddbringewatt” is a total waste product loser.”
That was very gentlemanly of you, are you going to threaten him like you did to me???
“He tried the same inflammatory bullshit on the SPM page and got shut down.”
Inflammitory only to you it seems, and BTW…this (and other) threads are still going on and have NOT been “shut down”. Seems that in addition to having some very thin skin, you are a LIAR.
So much for the issue of character. <sigh>
Hello Todd,
Bruce is protecting his Pai and his Si-Fu which is right and proper given his position, and given the unwarranted, ignorant and misinformed attacks that have been made upon GM Yee in the past.
Jack, likewise, is defending his Pai.
The actions of some posters on this forum illustrates why such things happen. There are for example a continuity of attacks against me from annonymous posters - who don’t in many peoples estimation deserve to be treated with anything other than contempt.
I’m sure that if you were to meet with Bruce or Jack in person then any misunderstandings could be resolved.
As for Fukien and Self-thinking… Bruce and Jack are amongst the most senior posters on this forum and they are amomgst the the best of their generation of martial artists. If you doubt it then take it up with them face to face or perhaps visit with their respective Grandmasters to question their choice of disciples and representatives. You are quite free to do that.
Regarding the ‘lies…etc’ I have pointed out that Fukien is either misinformed, ignorant or malicious in posting deletions, distortions half truths etc.
[reference deleted]
The reasons for those things coming to an end where in the public domain at the time.
If Fukien and his friend are genuine then that could be easily demonstrated. They could end their anonymity, reveal their background (if any)
and join in a constructive debate. If they are unwilling to do that then they reveal themselves sadly to be precisely what they appear by their posts to be.
Todd, please call on Bruce and/or Jack, and if you want to visit the UK call on me. Of course you are quite free to search around elsewhere and whatever your choice I wish you the very best of luck and success.
Steve.
[This message was edited by KFO Admin on 09-03-01 at 07:40 AM.]
Hello fgxpanzer,
SPM does utilise 45 degree entry and bridge work.
It depends on what you’ve seen and at what level with what teacher.
The real differences and similarities betwen the systems are interesting, but they are not uniformally present. Different WC people emphasise different techniques, energies etc. Which WC? Is it Yip-Man, mainland China etc…?
It’s the same with SPM.
A useful starting point for a debate would be an example from say WC or SPM and then some contributions from posters on the basis of their knowledge and experience to fill in any gaps.
Like anyone else I have my own experince which as I’ve said is limited, personal and therefore incomplete.
What do you think Todd?
Steve.
Dear Steve,
Thank you for your replies.
You mention Bruce and Jack defending their Pai? Who’s attacking?
In your last post you asked me what I think. I’m sorry; what do I think about what? I missed it.
Best regards,
Todd
P.S. Thank you for your invitation to the UK. Much obliged. Sounds fun.
And thanks again, Steve, for your candor, manners and willingness to communicate.
Hello Todd,
Bruce & Jack are time served real-deal martial artists who have seen some generations of people come and go in these arts. Amongst the good people to be thus found have and are - sadly a number of troublemakers. This internet medium allows them to thrive and to get away with things that they could never dare to do in the usual face-to-face way. Some of these people hav eposted very recently.
Bruce ion particular has had to defend GM Yee - although he needs no real defence his ‘eyes are very high’. Jack has seen a lot of attacks by no-mark anonymous cowards and likewise defends his pai against them.
About ‘What do you think’ I meant in the context of your original question about WC and SPM. Also, maybe a contribution along the lines that I suggested about a ‘prompt’ for further constructive debate.
I could certainly offer something but that contribution would have to be a very qualified one based upon my personal and therefore limited experience.
There is also the probablity of course that certain people would attempt to corrupt the thread
by causing or attempting to cause trouble. If they could be ignorred then maybe we could all progress?
You are very welcome here in the UK.
Kindest Regards,
Steve Richards.
Explain?
I have written Todd off line and have explained my position on this subject. I did not mean to offend him, but after reading his letter I recieved from him, I suppose I did. I am sorry for that. I do come across this way sometimes and is a flaw in my charactor. As far as superiorty? I dont feel Im superior to anyone on this board. I have trained with Sifu Yee for quite a long time and I am quick to come to his defense. I have appointed myself as keeper of his gate, on this board. Sifu Yee dont read it and has no idea of what is being said. If he does it certainly is not from me. I am not his number one student, and have never been. There are many who are much higher level then myself in his system. Steve is very kind by calling me a senior, and Im sure he is refering to years spent and age, not skill level.I dont usally respond to questions on this page unless they are about my teacher, or our branch.I leave the other questions answered by people who have much more knowledge on the subject. In person I will try to answer any question I can demonstrate, and dont talk about things I cant do. I feel Im an honest and open person. I am thin skinned about questions of my teacher. In the past there has been some who made statements that were far from the truth. After reading Todds letter to me, I dont feel he was trying to make trouble, he was only asking for opinions. I hope he finds what he is looking for and we welcome him into our circle, if he chooses to join.
Thank You
B.P.Campbell
There speaks a good, honest and open man. I’m proud to be his friend.
Steve.
REMINDER: NO POLITICS
REMINDER to please keep SPM politics out of this and all threads to avoid having good threads wiped out with a mass deletion. There’s too many GREAT things about the Southern Chinese arts for system in-fighting to spoil. Keep to the objective, stay away from the out-of-bounds topics, and enjoy.
As always, thank you for your cooperation.
Bruce P. Campbell
Dear all,
Bruce P. Campbell rules! I would like to highly commend Bruce for his forthcomingness and generosity to me in apologizing for his remarks (responding to my first couple of posts here in this topic).
I have not seen this kind of immediate and overwhelming demonstration of character in a LONG LONG TIME! What a man!
Thank you, thank you, thank you, once again, Bruce. And I would be honored to be considered worthy enough to join your circle.
You are truly someone to admire. My best wishes to you and yours.
Todd Bringewatt 
P.S. Steve, got your clarification of last post and your praise of Bruce in the post directly above. Amen!
may the force be with you
Apology to Todd
Since both Steve and Bruce have determined that you are not in fact some Internet surfing Troll I defer to their judgement in this matter and extend an apology for my response to you as well, Todd. John
Steve’s post
So Steve, in response to your question, “What do you think, Todd?” I think both arts are fascinating and incredibly valuable. I am left with another question for you (or anyone who would like to respond).
Would you consider the study of Wing Chun as a valuable platform for the study of Jook Lum or more of a hinderance if one intends to dedicate the years and master JL?
It seems one may develop necessary, immediately applicable and effective skills for the street with some speed in WC whereas with JL it may take some time, but perhaps be more effective. Therefore the study of WC might prepare one for the street quickly so he is not left vulnerable then provide a jumping-ground if you will into JL where combat skill is refined to a higher level of efficiency.
This seems somewhat true (of course with no experience in either art, simply study of theory – I understand how limited this is).
What do you think?
Todd
may the force be with you
Hello Todd,
I’ll give you a quick initial response: Wing-Chun was the platform upon which I tested Jook-Lum and the standard of effectiveness against which I judged it in a reality forum.
Wing-Chun is a part of my history and it served me well.
Jook-Lum took me years to grasp but when I did understand it was a quantum leap for me.
Again, purely subjectively, I ended up prefering J-L to Wing-Chun as a broadly short hand art, and Hop-Gar (Tibetan Lion’s Roar Lama) to Hung-Gar a s a nominally long-hand art. The reasons were empirical but subjective nevertheless.
Wing-Chun CAN be so good that if an art can beat it on its own turf then that art must be VERY good. It all boils down to subjective empiricism - or for some people sadly, unreflective bigotry.
I’m glad that I did Wing-Chun, it may even have saved my life on a number of occassions.
Hungmei
Dear Hungmei,
I just read your above post. Apology accepted. I would hope you might see on your own that my intentions are indeed honorable and not rely simply on the good judgement of Steve and Bruce.
However, your humility on this matter is observed and I appreciate it.
In friendship,
Todd Bringewatt
P.S. See the Wing Chun board for my announcement of your retraction of your words regarding my character there.
may the force be with you
not SPM vs WC but sim/diff between SPM and WC
I think may be the semantics of the questions, “SPM VERSUS WC” may have given off a bad vibe. Perhpas the question should be better phrased as what are the differences and similarities between SPM and WC? Otherwise there can be too much room for misinterpretation for polticial leanings to creep in. Also, I think anything that is phrased “A vs. B” rings too much of a troll-ish flavor and there are very many people on this board who have used up way too many hours of their lives they can’t get back on such threads and thus have a low tolerance of such things.
So leaving aside who and where and when and wuch, let us get back to the question at hand.
For example, interms of tactics and strategy, training methodlogy, applications of techniques given a particular situation (otherwise things get too vague), development of power/energy, etc. For example, in my oh so limited experience in both, both WC and SPM utilize similar conceptual tools as the centerlines and protecting/controlling it, using the bridge hands as a means of tactile “antenna” as well as controlling the opponents limbs and center once contact is made, etc. In terms of expression of techniques, I’ve noticed that WC relies more on correct angular placement to minimize force-on-force and SPM utilizes a more coiling action to “sweep” the opposing forces aside. Of course both arts use both angular and coiling but I am speaking in terms of a general preference. I could be way off base here, so would anyone like to contribute their PERSONAL OBSERVSNCES and OPINONS in a similar manner?
What we do in life, echoes in eternity
–Maximus Decimus Meridius, General of the Army of the North, Commander of the Felix Legions