Tom Hagan
let’s move the topic of Moy Yat’s lineage special students to the Wing Chung forum. I’ll post my experience there.
ATTN fgxpanzerz
OK, you need to stop bath mouthing Sifu’s who are of a much higher level than yourself.
My Mantis is from a disciple of Milton Chin who has also studied with Norman Chin and Gin Food Mark. What you say is not true.
I am now a student of Master Chan Bong. Again, what you say is not true. I have had the PRIVELEAGE of studying with Master Chan Bong for only 7 moths, but let me tell you they have been the most fruitful seven monbths of my martail career. He has held back nothing. In fact, he has given me toooo much. I can’t keep track of it all and study it all, simply too much for this short period of time.
I know what you are thinking. How would I know if he’s holding back. Well, I’m not a kook. Been studying since I was 4 years old. Isshin ryu (4 to HS, 2nd degree Black (not a cracker jack school, hard core, breaking bricks by 11 or 12)Hung Gar/Wing Chun, Mantis and now Hsing-I, Ba Gua.
You bad mouth Milton Chin and Norman Chin. You speak down about Master Chan Bong. Who do you suggest then? Who is left that is worth a ****? Should we go study at the local TKD.
Chan Bong is the best that I have ever seen in my 24 years of MA experince … period. If he he;ld back it was not because of your skin, but your skill or attitude. He’s the first to say he will not play forevites in regard to race but that he is human, and if you show him respect and treat him well, it is only natural that he be more open with you.
Besides being the only true master that I have ever come across (most people claiming that title I would not even call sifu)he is genuinely a good man. Please, no need to bath mouth the man. At 60 years old he has seen more and fought more gung fu than most of the people on this board combined.
As for the Hung Gar tournament – “fighting not forms” – do you consider that gung fu fighting? Looks like very sloppy kick boxing to me. ZERO technique.
The people that do well there every year are associated with my old mantis sifu. They either win or get disqualified every year. You’ll notice them.
Stillness in the heart of motion.
Ma sceptic,
It appears that the moderator of the other area of the forum has seen fit to remove your topic from there, so I will post a reply to what you said here.
Again, I do not mean to and cannot defend or excuse anything my sihing may or may not have done to you. That matter is really between you and him. However, I am sorry you feel so strongly about this that you sat in silence 28 years until after your teacher’s teacher was dead and subscribe to this forum for the sole reason to bring up this issue. That’s a serious grudge.
I hope you will soon find a way to let go. Since you have not contacted me privately and prefer to remain anonymous on this issue, I hope that this “public airing” of your feelings gives you some sense of relief.
The amount my sifu asked for was never higher than 3,000 dollars. I suppose he may have said 10,000 to specific people. If he did, I am sure it was to immediately “turn off” someone so that person would go away quickly. I have personally witnessed him say and do things purely intentioned to make someone go away. Usually, it was not with money, though he used that, too. Yip Man, in his later years, was legendary for this tactic, also. I understand he would go so far as to stop talking to someone for good because that person spilled tea on the table.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>He never touched hands with the students.
I guess Moy Yat wanted to see real money before he showed the “real stuff”.[/quote]
No, actually, that was one aspect of his teaching method. The theory behind my sifu’s way could probably fill several books. There really was a method to what appeared to some as madness. However, no one ever pretended it would be suitable for everyone. It takes a “special” kind of student and a “special” kind of teacher to pull it off. 
Suffice to say, for now, it worked for many, but not all, of Moy Yat’s students.
Additionally, on any given day it is difficult to judge what a class with anyone is like. That’s just the nature of a “snapshot” view of a given day at any school you go to. Sometimes, you click. Sometimes, you are turned off.
Many people have expectations which go unfulfilled in their training and their life. Though the same is true for any endeavor, martial arts, in particular, are not for everyone. It is impossible for any one man to be all things to all prospective students; certainly not during only one class, anyway. 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>I am pissed that I fell for the Lee Moy Shan special student scam. I know of other
special students that felt cheated also[/quote]
Yes, there are many who share your view not only of him but of Moy Yat himself and others. What can I say? Every single one of them is absolutely entitled to their opinion. No one can change it. Nor would I try.
I, myself, fell for something similar in 1984 when I believed a Ving Tsun instructor who told me that Moy Yat had passed away. As it turned out, I only studied at that school for a very short time before I quit. When the urge to study the style arose within me a few years later, imagine my surprise and how stupid I felt when I found Moy Yat standing in front of me alive and well.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Robert Chu wrote an article about this practice. He alluded to a famous w.c master’s
technique as the Begging Palm.[/quote]
I have never met Robert Chu. However, I do know that he studied with a student of Lee Moy Shan’s for a long time. As for Mr. Chu’s article, would you be surprised to find out that Moy Yat actually thought it was pretty good? By the way, the “begging palm” is properly called “Tan Sao.”
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>I forgot the other secret technique. Can a special student remind me of it ?[/quote]
“sao gerk song siu, mo jit jiu” - If you control the hands and feet, there are no secrets. - Ving Tsun Kuen Kuit.
Yip Man felt very strongly that this one Hao Kuit was truly Ving Tsun. So much, in fact, that he had my sifu and Chi Nam Kwong carve it in stone almost 40 years ago.
Lastly, if you are, in actuality, a “special student,” you are always welcome at the school. You are welcome not just as a guest, but as a long lost family member. A relationship was and is always there. What can be done to make it stronger and/or reconcile? I don’t know. You may not want anything like that after so long. But, I truly am sincere in saying that I hope you find whatever you are looking for.
<a href=“http://www.moyyat.com” target=“_self”>
<img src=“http://www.moyyat.com/images/flower-small.gif” border=0 width=69 height=63 alt=“In Loving Memory”></a>
fgxpanzerz,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>He (Moy Yat) wasnt the hot stuff everyone thinks he is. His bong sau iz wrong [/quote]
If you thought it was bad before, you should have seen it after his second stroke. And, If you thought it was bad after his second stroke, just imagine the difficulty now.
Moy Yat is gone. I was with him when he past away at his house earlier this year. Yet, still, I can learn from him. That’s a good teacher.
<a href=“http://www.moyyat.com” target=“_self”>
<img src=“http://www.moyyat.com/images/flower-small.gif” border=0 width=69 height=63 alt=“In Loving Memory”></a>
Tom, I disagree with WC in a few areas but you are a good student. May your sifu’s soul rest in peace and may you carry on his lineage succesfully.
People will always talk …
Stillness in the heart of motion.
A credit
Tom, you are a true gentleman; a credit to your sifu and the wing chun style. If only more folks were as even-keeled as you are…
bak mei
I dont remember specifically badmouthing any high level sifus in particular. If I did, oops, sorry. However, I do remember posting a question about if certain sifus lead u around and make u pay a lot without teaching u d*ck. I know a guy who was given the runaround by Chan Bong. That’s where I get my info from. By the way, just cuz people do well at the tournament, it doesnt mean they are necessarily skilled. The judges are biast toward their own school. It’s a known fact.
To the guy who was bragging about putting people in the hospital with his pheonix eye fist:
I’m sure yor really really dangerous. But who cares. Once, I got hit by a car. The ambulance rushed me to the hospital but when I got there I found out my time and money was being wasted cause there was nothing wrong with me. Could this have not been the case with those people u sent to the hospital with yor dreaded Phoenix eye fist? haha. If u respond to this then my point will have been proven.
And all the Sinners, Saints?
A great many people are blinded by those who use the term “sifu” before thier names,
It means TEACHER.
It does NOT mean…enlightened, honest, caring, law-abiding, teetotaller, non-gambler or better person.
Never has, never will.
Please do not reply about the mythological pious trancendental Masters and all that crap.
Hakka Arts are for KILLING.g
fxpimpgimp
What is your point exactly? Now you got hit by a car and survived, first it was "I’m so amazing I survived a dreaded phoenix eye " and now it’s automobiles. Next you’ll tell us you’re the jung shee of some secret iron body system and it’s all part of you tests. I’ll be impressed when you stand in front of a train. What was it a match box car!!
Are you sure you study gung fu or you just look at the pretty pictures?! Fool! :eek:
Um, don’t mean to intrude on this cosy chat, but…
Biu Ji, I can now reveal you are Mr T out of the A-Team children’s tv series:
"Are you sure you study gung fu or you just look at the pretty pictures?! Fool! :eek: "
Only Mr T would say that. And, checking your profile, it says you’re male so that proves it.
The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
– Hong Kong Phooey
Fukien, thanks, I was getting tired of reminding it every time!
No time to contemplate
The Hakka people didn’t have time to contemplate life on the mountaintop, they had to survive.
They had to fight starvation, poverty, predudice and all of thier fellow Chinese who hated them.
The Hakka arts were also called “Black Arts” because they wer e, in effect, dirty fighting.
And the Hakka themselves were no angels either.
It is really sad the way Americans swallow the crap that anyone who calls themself “Sifu” puts down thier throats.
You’re a Hakka aren’t you?
Just wondering, you speak like…you speak like someone dear to my heart when she would feel blue and tell me her story…
i pitty da fool!
i like MR T!
gold chains and sh!t…
come & visit us!
http://home.iprimus.com.au/ykm
yaukungmun@hotmail.com
I really recommend Norman Chin to anybody who wants to learn southern mantis…everybody seems to be talking a lot of bad stuff about him but they wouldnt know because they never trained with him…I have been training with him for a while and if you are dedicated enough then he will teach you what you deserve…and no, he doesnt charge several hundred extra dollars to learn sam bo jin. And no, Norman Chin is not cheap with money. And no, he is not commercial…he happens to be very traditional. Dont believe what all the other people are saying…they never trained with him and if they did, they would most likely regret what they said. So give his class a try if your interested. And also…there are several students who have been with him for over ten years.
SPMKF
Dont believe what these fake people are saying
I know a couple of good SPM sifus in NYC area. One friend of mine just got appointed to teach at the Chinese Mason Assoc, he is the first non-Asian in history to be given this honor!!!PM me if any are interested. 
Jook Lum Teacher
James Cama Sifu of the New York ChineseFreeMasons Athletic Club is excepting inquiries for training in Traditional Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai of Grand Master Lam Sang’s Lineage. Email him at JCama108@aol.com
Gate Fees
I really recommend Norman Chin to anybody who wants to learn southern mantis…everybody seems to be talking a lot of bad stuff about him but they wouldnt know because they never trained with him…
How much does he charge for “First Gate” these days?
I have been training with him for a while and if you are dedicated enough then he will teach you what you deserve…and no, he doesnt charge several hundred extra dollars to learn sam bo jin.
Thats right. First you learn a bunch of Hung Gar then SBJ, on to 18 Points and THEN its many hundred dollars for the “First Gate”.
Hey, its your time and money.
Have a nice day.
-jo
gwok-si, gwok-faht
I have always been told that styles like SPM and Bak Me were “finishing sty;es” one Bak Me Sifu is quoted with saying, “We don’t teach students, we teach Sifus.”
I can tell you this: My Hung Kuen training made a big difference in me being able toabsorb the system and understand the power development. Using the short power of SPM is understandable to those who have developed whole body power. As one Sifu has told me, Hung Kuen develops the entire power chain and Jook Lum deals with the last link, but you still need the entire development. Mark Foon trained in Bak Hok P’ai and Hung Kuen before learning Jook Lum, and Sifu Chin teaching Hung Kuen and Tai Gik Kuen before Sam Bo Gin, is a prefect succession in development. Those who are spoiled children and feel that they should learn what they want, wnen they want it, have already shown why they have been taught what they have been taught. If you haven’t gotten anywhere in the system, you canlook in two places; your Sifu, and yourselves.
Where are you looking?
Cool words Ten Tigers.
Peter Pena