Since I don’t have my own site and I can’t create a new forum or folder, I just wanted to start a free-discussion thread for practitioners (and the curious-minded) of all branches of Southern Praying Mantis Gong Fu.
NOTICE FOR FLAMERS/DETRACTORS: I don’t think SPM is superior to any style. I don’t think it’s the best in a street fight. I don’t think it’s the best in the ring/cage/whatever. I don’t think it’s best for a death-match. I don’t think it is the purest classical style. I don’t think it’s a complete martial art. I simply like it, practice it, and wish to speak with other like-minded individuals.
To start things off:
Bio: I practice Jook Lum (Bamboo Temple) SPM
Statement: SPM is the classical CMA that I feel is closest to more modern, practical fighting styles.
Question: Does anybody know how many forms there are that have been passed down since the beginning? Or at all, for that matter?
Another Question: Is SPM more suited for smaller or larger individuals?
You said you dont think it is a complete martial art style???
I think that any style can be complete if you look at it in a right way.?
but tell me what do you like about SPM and how does southern parying mantis and kungfu in general compare to ninjutsu I always wanted to know. I know the first ninja families where taught by Chinese mystic preist(assumly Taoist but could of been buddhist to). Anyway Kungfu of some kind a part , but I think it was the philosophy (assumeing Taoism) that lead to Ninjutsu over all. I study tai chi chuan and that is deeply rooted in Taoism to. However alot of Tai chi sytlist uses their knowledge to heal and such, where ninjutsu use it in espionage. The same theory that is used to duck and remotion an attack can duck and remotion and agruement, or intrigation.
So I guess the only question is who could/does Southern Praying Mantis do this.
I think he’s trying to trace the roots of ninjutsu to its Chinese origins. That’s easy… go ask at E-budo or at Kutaki . E-budo has practitioners of Bujinkan, Genbukan & Jinenkan on board. Kutaki is strictly Bujinkan people only.
I think SPM is suited for short individuals since I’ve been told styles like White Crane is suited for taller individuals. By the way if you want to visit an interesting and fun site, visit James Sun’s 8 Step Praying Mantis Kung Fu site, it’s at www.8step.com
MantisWill,
Which Lineage of JookLum are you studying. I studied a small amount of JookLum, but it was a combination style and it was mantis that i really liked so I changed schools so concentrate on Chow Gar, ok I’m quickly going to answer the questions posted as I am trying to leave work and get to training.
Mantis suited to certain sized people…I personally dont think it matters, in our pai we have small skinny guys and huge well built guys if the techinques are learnt correct then strengh is not an issue. It is mostly in the mind if you are facing a big guy and you feel intimidated then you have lost already, it all comes down to confidence, no confidence no kung fu.
As for forms to tell you the truth I am not sure most of the mantis sets started off with a few 3/4 core forms (so I have been told)Its difficult to work out how many forms are in Chow Gar as some have 2nd and 3rd stages and then there are the fighting forms and weapon forms not necissarily in that order.The best thing is to ask your sifu or you could look over the f blanco artical its on the net somewhere that had a lot of interesting info, but dont take it all as the truth.
Do I think it is closest to todays modern fighting styles, JKD??? (if this is what you mean) I don’t think it is like any other fighting style other than it’s Hakka relatives pak mai, lung ying (i probably spelt both those wrong sorry) I remember starting out in MA’s tried Karate,Ju Jit Su and kickboxing. Most of these where similar in there methods of counter then strike/attack, in Chow Gar and JookLum the equasion is broken down to just strike/attack incomming attacks are countered with an attack of our own making it very efficient.
You said you didnt think of it as a complete system or anything special, but what I was saying is how does Southern Mantis Compare to other martial arts. How can you find similarites between them and how can you adapt the principles of SPM to generate attributes like something in Northern Shaolin, Judo, etc.
I mean finding similarites between SPM and another style by using the concepts and principles of physics that are in SPM
silimar principles + modification (could)= similar movements, skills etc.
this is where Ninjutsu I think, comes into play because Chinese kungfu stylist and there Japanese disiples modifed in used innavation to adapt there art.
ok in short simply terms.
What can you do with learn in Southern Praying Mantis?
Statement: SPM is the classical CMA that I feel is closest to more modern, practical fighting styles.
Will [/B]
Do you mean in application or practicality?
If you mean practicality i dont think thats fair i mean styles such as pa-kua, baji, choy li fut, wing chun and hung gar have been quite time tested and i dont think its fair simply to say southern praying mantis is more pratical. I dont think you can say any martial art that contains principles as SPM does it can be incomplete. Forms are not set in stone and you cannot say these are all the techniques that can exist in SPM simply because they are all the techniques in forms. Why not apply SPM principles to groundfighting?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mantis-1
[B]MantisWill,
Which Lineage of JookLum are you studying.
Here’s my branch of the family tree:
Som Dot - founder (Si-Jo) of Jook Lum Branch (certainly). Possibly founder of whole SPM system (some dispute here).
Lee Sum See - next Master (and then Grandmaster) under Som Dot at Bamboo Temple. Lived to be 100.
Chung Yei Jung - learned under Lee Sum See in Bamboo Temple; opened school in Ping Som in the 1910’s. Gave name of Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Tong Long Pai to system.
Lum Wing Fay (Lum Sang See) - first learned under Master Chung Yei Jung. Then learned under (then) Grandmaster Lee Sum See. Possessed knowledge and practice of entire system, including some extra Qi Gongs. Brought Jook Lum to USA. Recieved altar and became Grandmaster after Lee Sum and Chung Yei died in fairly quick succession. My Si-Gung (teacher’s teacher).
Louie Jack Man (Ah Louie) - learned under Lum Sang in NYC Chinatown. Admitted into Lum Sang’s second group of disciples. Was Si-Hing (older brother) to Mark Gin Foon (current Grandmaster per Lum Sang, who has since died in 1991). My Sifu in Philadelphia (I’m in LA now, but he’ll always be my teacher). I learned primarily under 2 of his students (Maurice Tunstall and, boy I can’t remember his name) who have been studying for 15-20 years with Sifu, though Louie Sifu would sometimes show forms and play hands.
Me, William Kilmer. Studied for very brief period. I know only enough to know I want to learn more. My deepest goal is to use SPM as a path towards making myself a better person. Someday I’d like to go to the Jook Lum temple, pay respects, and maybe witness some SPM in its homeland. My more shallow goal is to be good enought to be taught the 108 form and some SPM-specific internal training.
ok in short simply terms.
What can you do with learn in Southern Praying Mantis? [/B]
I’m having trouble understanding your language and meaning. But, here goes: You can learn to use your internal power and your opponents own power to defeat him. SPM is a soft style. Sort of a cross between..well, I dunno. You learn quick, protective footwork, fast hands, rapid strikes, centerline protection, sensitivety training, body conditioning, “boxing” tactics, etc…
When I said it’s not a complete martial art, I was only trying to keep the flamers off the thread. A sure way of getting a lot of guff is by saying, “My style has it all.” You can take what you learn in SPM and apply it to anything martial in nature, and even to non-martial situations. So, if that makes it complete in your mind, so be it. I just meant that, it, like most styles, doesn’t address every possible way to defend yourself (the only purpose) in every situation. It’s impossible to learn all of that in 1 lifetime; that’s why martial “sciences” (to quote myself from another thread) are a lifelong journey.
I guess all that I really meant about the “moderness” of SPM was that when I was auditing a TON of schools to determine where I would practice next, I felt that SPM reminded me of Western Boxing, Krav Maga, and bare-knuckles fighting most. You know, protect the soft tissues and hit first, hit often, hit to win. Just my observation.
Originally posted by MantisWill I am discovering it is REALLY hard to find people to talk about SOUTHERN Praying Mantis with. <sigh>
I know it is and there are a few places on the web to talk about SPM. It’s even tougher to find places to talk about ones own style but one place to read about 8step praying mantis is James Sun’s page 8step.com. This forum is really good and is most welcome for talking about SPM. I wish you luck as it can be frustrating to find someone to talk about SPM with.
There is a specific SPM forum which you will have to apply to for membership, it doesn’t cost but your background/legitamacy will be checked. You could find out about this forum through Steve T Richards he’s the Disciple to Grandmaster Lee-Lien: Lee-Yin-Sing Pai Kwangsi Jook-Lum. Do a member search for him and mail him to ask about membership,
mantis-1 : “You could find out about this forum through Steve T Richards he’s the Disciple to Grandmaster Lee-Lien: Lee-Yin-Sing Pai Kwangsi Jook-Lum. Do a member search for him and mail him to ask about membership,”
I think you will find he is no longer a member of the forum, plus he has changed his e-mail addresses.
BTW if you happen to have his new e-mail I would appreciate it (by e-mail of course) I need to get in touch with him.
I am new to martial art and i was thinking of starting up Praying Mantis but which one shall i do. Can anyone please tell me what the difference between the difference styles of Praying Mantis? Any help would be much appreciated.
Ok I’m not going to go into too much detail, and for any northern mantis practitioners please correct me if I am wrong as northern mantis is not my style.The southern branches of mantis are specifically short range systems with it’s northern counterparts seem more geared to a longer range, this maybe due to the lack of high footwork in the southern systems. From what I can gather as I stated before northern is not my style, there are far fewer techniques in the southern systems i.e. There are ho high kicks and fewer stances. Also if I am correct in saying (as I have not come across it within CG southern mantis) southern mantis lacks the trademark ‘mantis hook’ found in the northern systems. Southern mantis emphasises the borrowing of your opponents power and redirecting it back, there is also a lack of ‘blocks’ within the systems breaking down the need to block then counter, simply attack with a counter attack. The northern varieties seem more energetic with a larger range of movements to there applications. I don’t know about the power generation within northern mantis but specific exercises and lines of movement through forms helps the southern practitioner to develop a shock or short power. This allows attacks to originate from wherever the hands happen to be, there is no need to draw back or chamber the attack. Well I have gone on long enough so I will let someone else have their say and hopefully some of the northern guys will contribute aswell.