RF,
>I’m talking about the physical form of the movements and especially the forms themselves. I think everyone here has already discussed the clear differences. You can see similarities between Wong Hon Fun, Chiu Chi Man and our Lin Bo Yan families.
As you know, there are of course also differences.
>You can see a different set of similarities between your school, Yu Tian Cheng and Chen le Ping, for example. There is another, third, clear difference with the modern wushu mantis form.
OK, thanks for the clarification. You’re right. However, what about the similarities? Even in terms of forms, eg. Beng Bu, Duo Gang, Cha Chui and Tou Tao (BYTT from mainland and LGY line’s Tanglang Tou Tao), and depending on the clan, Shiba Suo (aka ‘sou’) and Shuang Cha Hua are all virtually the same. Also, in applications, the most important part of any martial system, the similarities are even greater.
>The former group has lots in common with other Shaolin styles such as Hung Gar, for example in the stances, stepping, like the warding off punch etc. The second group, based in Shandong, looks more like a unique style of movement.
That’s why I asked which particular schools you might have been referring to, because in my opinion those things are also definitely there. True, there are some schools in Shandong which ‘look’ a lot different from your own line (for example), in terms of stepping and certain ‘static’ postures etc, but I hold that there are some that look and in fact are quite similar. It could be argued though that there has been as much absorption of external flavours in Shandong TLQ (Tongbi, fanzi, luohan, bagua, xingyi, cha, sunbin etc) as there was in Shanghai and onwards with Yingzhao Quan in the Jingwu (and regardless of much some LGY descendants hate to hear it, of indigenous southern styles particularly after the move to HK)
>This is pretty clear from my answer, in the context of what it was following on from. I’m sure it’s nothing new on this forum. Cotterrel just calls it Shandong mantis and Hong Kong mantis over on his forum, perhaps he can explain that to you better than I can? I don’t go fo that simple a view of it myself.
I don’t really know what Mr Cottrell has to do with the discussion, though I suspect that this view stems from the Inside Kungfu article of several years ago (where he famously/infamously quoted one of my masters saying that what he was seeing resembled ‘nan quan’. What many people don’t know is that this comment was based on many years of seeing LGY line TLQ out of HK- regardless of its accuracy). I agree that it’s no simple matter but I also don’t think labelling things by place name does any harm as it’s common practice throughout all martial arts and always has been. I don’t know why you don’t go in for the use of place names, as it would make your description of differences between the above mentioned families much easier. I think you are right, there are differences and I also think geography plays a signifigant part. Even between cities as close as Yantai and Qingdao.
Now I’m beggining to sound just like every other internet authority. Thanks Redfish.
bt
