I’ve read many posts on this board and many websites where people have talked about employing Wing Chun without requiring conditioning (stamina, strength, toughness etc)
just wanting to start a discussion about this.
after seeing my Sigung in action at a recent seminar I can see the skill he has from spending a lot of time training basics to the point of perfection - a process that would definitely increase fitness etc in the way he trained/trains.
i know that WC using smart positioning (of the body in respect to the opponent and of the body parts) etc but:
sounds like you have a great attitude towards training.
personally my general wing chun training keeps me fit, off the couch and enjoying life. the mind conditioning has helped me everywhere in life and (as cheesy as it sounds!) improved my enjoyment of life outside the kwoon as well as inside.
i just see MA training as having a conditioning component inherant in it - which may be a bad assumption on my part
I work out and try to keep good physical shape. I am no where near prefect shape because I have too many bad habits still, but I have cut some of the really bad ones out a lot in the last year. I no longer smoke, quit cold turkey. I eat healthier diet. No more fast food, unless I am super super super broke (taco bell can save lives when you can’t afford real food).
So If I keep this up in a few more years I should be in extremely good shape. I think that the key is to set humble goals, and when you reach immediately up the stakes on yourself as a new goal. It gives you the sense of success and is a strong motivator.
Stength, endurance, conditioning are all attributes that can be applied not only kung fu, but a lot of other things in life. Both mentally and physically. So being in shape and training hard means higher pay offs.
You know I used think it would be awesome to be super rich, life would be totally easy. Then I realized how hard rich people really worked. Now there is always an exception, some people get really rich fast and can pay people to work for them and reap the benefits.
This can also be applied to the logic of kung fu. Working hard and keeping in shape doesn’t mean you will have less skill, but it definately helps you reach your goals faster. There are also exceptions, some people are natural at it and do not need to train as hard as others.
If I were to have to bet on a match between two fighters that both practice the same style from the same teacher for the same amount of time, and one conditioned themself physically and stayed in shape, while the other one just trained and did not physcially keep in shape, my money would go on the one that put more effort and work outside their art, to make them better at their art. (I think that might be a run on sentence LOL)
Ernie is right. Being is shape is just common sense whether you’re doing karate, tennis, volleyball, kung fu . . . . . .
You especially need conditioning so that you don’t fold up under pressure. My students who do 2-3000 punches per class then block/punch kick combos, etc., are getting a ‘little’ conditioning.
Many other styles, to be successful, require some level of conditioning. Wing Chun does not need conditioning. Conditioning is not Kung Fu. The Kung Fu is the foundation, not the absolute. Being a well conditioned “athlete” can be an advantage for any style. However, your Sigung demonstrated that the Kung Fu is more an intelligent martial art, which does not depend on physical conditioning.
Wing Chun does not need conditioning. Conditioning is not Kung Fu.
[/B]
Study the origin of Kung Fu. Wing Chun was developed to “FIGHT” the oppressive Manchu. The dummy and the pole are some examples of the conditioning inherent in Wing Chun
Why you troublemaker…If I can manage to stand up and move away from my computer screen I’ll teach y…(Cough! Cough!) a less…(Cough! Cough!) on. I’ll kill y…(panting hard with rapid pupils dilating) a! That’s all. =)
Originally posted by Lindley57 Simon,
Many other styles, to be successful, require some level of conditioning. Wing Chun does not need conditioning. Conditioning is not Kung Fu. The Kung Fu is the foundation, not the absolute. Being a well conditioned “athlete” can be an advantage for any style. However, your Sigung demonstrated that the Kung Fu is more an intelligent martial art, which does not depend on physical conditioning.
This is the attitude that gets most WC guys ‘wrecked’ when they go against other martial artists. It’s also one of the reason I’ve found in my 34 years in Wing Chun that most other styles laugh at WC. Some think that WC is a magic pill where you can be effective with out any effort. Even practicing chi sau requires conditioning.
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Study the origin of Kung Fu. Wing Chun was developed to “FIGHT” the oppressive Manchu. The dummy and the pole are some examples of the conditioning inherent in Wing Chun
I think they meant special conditioning outside of wing chun. The condititioning you get from the dummy and long pole are only one of the benefits. The conditioning is kind of like an added bonus. You are still learning more of how to fight more than you are conditioning your body.
Some styles don’t rely on conditioning and are very effective. They train moves and techniques that do great damage with little effort. This in return does have a bad effect on some of its practitioners. Sometimes you will see over or under weight and out of shape martial artists due to lack of physical conditioning. That is bad kung fu IMHO.
Hard work is what makes your kung fu good. Hard work includes: physical work outs and exercise, endurance, hard training (practice everyday), and always train the maximum range. That will make you a good martial artist reguardless of your MA style.
Why you troublemaker…If I can manage to stand up and move away from my computer screen I’ll teach y…(Cough! Cough!) a less…(Cough! Cough!) on. I’ll kill y…(panting hard with rapid pupils dilating) a! That’s all. =)
don’t trip over all those empty pizza boxes or mc donald happy meals
[[Originally posted by Lindley57
Simon,
Wing Chun does not need conditioning. Conditioning is not Kung Fu. ]]]
I think your take on this is likely to depend on whether you have divorced the concept of WC from fighting and realistic self defence as a surprising number of people seem to have done.
Good physical attributes will act as a multiplier to your base fighting ability as surely as having good skills.
Pursuing good WC skills and high levels of physical conditionning are not mutually exclusive. Anybody who thinks so is likely to have little understanding or experience of training for functional strength and performance vs a more stereotypical body building style regime.
Many other styles, to be successful, require some level of conditioning. Wing Chun does not need conditioning. Conditioning is not Kung Fu. The Kung Fu is the foundation, not the absolute. Being a well conditioned “athlete” can be an advantage for any style. However, your Sigung demonstrated that the Kung Fu is more an intelligent martial art, which does not depend on physical conditioning.
after seeing my Sigung in action at a recent seminar
Um… lol. I can look great or in great shape if I were giving a seminar…I can look great for hours so, what kind of “action” did you get to see at a “seminar”?
If Kung Fu is about working and training, it is also about conditioning. top endurance athletes have excellent Kung Fu.
If you don’t train hard enough in WC to positiively affect your general fitness … you don’t train hard enough. Kung Fu should affect your quality of life for the better across the board … if I want to be able to defend myself without hard training, I’ll invest in firearms, not WC. If WC is about “investing in yourself”, and you remain a fat loser, then you need to fire your broker.
I think Scott Sonnon of ROSS says it best:
There are three parameters of performance, skill, strength and conditioning.
If your attributes in two of those areas exceed those of your opponent, you are more likely to win.
Um… lol. I can look great or in great shape if I were giving a seminar…I can look great for hours so, what kind of “action” did you get to see at a “seminar”? [/B]
sarcasm alert!!!
i’m sure you can!
I was inspired to train harder after seeing my Sigung move. I see now that if I want to attain that level of coordination I will have to train harder - which is what I am trying to get at by starting this thread. as some with some of the previous replies, I believe that proper skill training for combat (whichever arena) will inherently include body conditioning
Your sigung - William Cheung - who is also Andrew Nerlich’s sigung, and who is also my sifu and Phil Redmond’s sifu…is now 63 years old. He’s still in pretty good shape - but conditioning was always a big part of his Wing Chun program…always. I have some video (as does Phil) of him performing when he was about 35 years old…and he was incredibly conditioned - as he was when I first met him - just 2 months before his 43rd birthday.
Wing Chun Kung Fu without conditioning is a straw man - if you ever have to use it against a fighter who is in shape.
Wing Chun was developed to “FIGHT” the oppressive Manchu. The dummy and the pole are some examples of the conditioning inherent in Wing Chun