Fook Sau can look similar to Tahn sau (not Tan Sau). But the applications are different.
Tahn Sau can be used as a soft tissue strike, (nose etc..) but one needs to be careful as the back of the hand is very fragile as other’s here have already mentioned.
[QUOTE=duende;1097174]Fook Sau can look similar to Tahn sau (not Tan Sau). But the applications are different.
Tahn Sau can be used as a soft tissue strike, (nose etc..) but one needs to be careful as the back of the hand is very fragile as other’s here have already mentioned.[/QUOTE]
I think you mean Daahn Sao, bounce off hand. That uses the lower forearm, not the wrist.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1097167]Correct. So can you give me some examples of your SLT fighting applications Phil? Let’s say the 3 crossing actions before the punches at the end of the form. There are many in other lineages but only one concept in my system. My concept is small in idea.
G[/QUOTE]
Someone grabs my left arm. I step back with the left leg snatching my arm towards me while simultaneously executing a strike to his hand with my other hand. This is called a Chit Sao. Almost everything in my forms have fighting apps.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097179]I think you mean Daahn Sao, bounce off hand. That uses the lower forearm, not the wrist.[/QUOTE]
Nope… Tahn Sau.
The wrist has to be held is a specific way though for structural support.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1097166] . . . . . The WC (Fu Shou)?? I thought kowloonboy was talking about Fook Sau (Cantonese please!) which isn’t even the same character you have here. . . .[/QUOTE]
All Chinese read the same characters regardless of their native dialect. Fu Shou and Fook Sao are the same thing.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1097166] As a learned Cantonese talker you surely must have heard that Fook/Fuhk means ‘hidden’ (?) AND control AND subdue, so it can be looked upon as a ‘concept’. Please tell me that you have learnt about Fook Da, Tan Da, Bong Da??!! THAT is a ‘hidden hit’ ;)[/QUOTE]
I’m not “learned” in Cantonese. I speak enough to get by and I’m getting better since I’ve moved back East where there are more Cantonese speakers.
Yale University Romanization of the Cantonese dialect teaches that there are 7 tones in Cantonese.
Haih can mean the verb ‘to be’, shoe, a point in space, crab, vagina, etc. The character for Fuhk/Fook that ALL WC people use means control/subdue. Not hidden. Here’s the character . Please show it to anyone who can read Chinese. If they tell you it means hidden then thank you for teaching me something new.
Yes, most of the movements in our SLT form and the other forms have fighting apps. I personally wouldn’t train in a system that didn’t. My Chen Tai Chi Sifu Yu Guo Shun http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPMWutnSdc says the same thing. He teaches the fighting apps in the forms. Obviously we do different WC and that’s all good my friend.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097188] The character for Fuhk/Fook that ALL WC people use means control/subdue.
Not hidden. Here’s the character .
Please show it to anyone who can read Chinese. If they tell you it means hidden then thank you for teaching me something new.
[/QUOTE]
Phil,
You are absolutely correct and nothing hidden. lets see it as it is instead of side track to other stuffs. general Chinese some times has a problem of side track and lost the focus.
[QUOTE=duende;1097182]Nope… Tahn Sau.
The wrist has to be held is a specific way though for structural support.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean like 3:16 here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL54FY1XO4
If so that is pronounced Daahn.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097216]Do you mean like 3:16 here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhL54FY1XO4
If so that is pronounced Daahn.[/QUOTE]
Kind of similar, but not the same. We use a different wrist structure than what you have shown in your vid. Also in our version, the angle of motion is quite different in both our SLT form and application.
you say tomato, I say tomato… 
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1097166]The WC (Fu Shou)?? I thought kowloonboy was talking about Fook Sau (Cantonese please!) which isn’t even the same character you have here.[/QUOTE]
I’m not Cantonese. I don’t like Judo system to force US Judo students to learn Japanese. After all Japanese is an international language, but Cantonese is only one of the Chinese local dialects.
I think these are the characters. Hopefully a native speaker can concur, or not. 
[SIZE=“7”][/SIZE]
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097180]Someone grabs my left arm. I step back with the left leg snatching my arm towards me while simultaneously executing a strike to his hand with my other hand. This is called a Chit Sao. Almost everything in my forms have fighting apps.[/QUOTE]
Ok, that’s what I used to think when I was involved in the Ip Chun lineage. I’ve since been shown the error of my ways. No problem.
I also used to have a fighting application for every single action in the forms. When I met Philipp it took me a while for the penny to drop but I will never go back to those ideas as long as I am practicing Ving Tsun.
G
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097221]I think these are the characters. Hopefully a native speaker can concur, or not.
[SIZE=“7”][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
This discussion just remind me an old Taiji argument, “(Bao Hu Gui Shan) - Well fed tiger return back to mountain” vs. “(Bao Hu Gui Shan) - Carry tiger back to mountain”. Since “(Bao) - Well fed” and “(Bao) - Carry” share the same pronunciation, people had to argue which one was correct for over 100 years. In the ancient time, most of the TCMA masters may not even be able to write. Most of the teaching was from words out of mouth.
I do believe that:
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1097230]This discussion just remind me an old Taiji argument, “(Bao Hu Gui Shan) - Well fed tiger return back to mountain” vs. “(Bao Hu Gui Shan) - Carry tiger back to mountain”. Since “(Bao) - Well fed” and “(Bao) - Carry” share the same pronunciation, people had to argue which one was correct for over 100 years. In the ancient time, most of the TCMA masters may not even be able to write. Most of the teaching was from words out of mouth.
I do believe that:
[QUOTE=Graham H;1097229]Ok, that’s what I used to think when I was involved in the Ip Chun lineage. I’ve since been shown the error of my ways. No problem.
I also used to have a fighting application for every single action in the forms. When I met Philipp it took me a while for the penny to drop but I will never go back to those ideas as long as I am practicing Ving Tsun.
G[/QUOTE]
Well I’m glad you’re happy with what you’re doing. I’m very happy with what I do. I’ll also adopt things that work for me from other lineages. If it works I could care less what lineage it comes from.
I have used it as a strike as stated by others it’s like a Mantis technique. It should probably be used as a quick whipping motion it’s devastating against the side of the head and nose. Can lay someone out if used against the neck if you know where to strike. You strike with the wrist not the hand or really the back of the hand you can easily break a bone. It’s actually probably safer than striking with your fist as with this you are striking with the area where your forearm attaches to the hand. The hand is bent so your not hitting with the hand just the end of the forearm. Just an example.
The reason that you strike this way is for speed. When you block and catch your opponent’s striking hand, and while his body is still moving forward, you want to borrow his momentum and force and create a “head on collusion”. You may not have time to change your hooking hand into a fist. So you sacrisfice your power for speed. After all, to hit on the face, 30 lb or 50 lb force may not make that much difference.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097252]Well I’m glad you’re happy with what you’re doing. I’m very happy with what I do. I’ll also adopt things that work for me from lineages. If it works I could care less what lineage it comes from.[/QUOTE]
Its a shame everybody isn’t like you on this forum Phil!!! There would be less bickering.
GH
[QUOTE=Graham H;1097333]Its a shame everybody isn’t like you on this forum Phil!!! There would be less bickering.
GH[/QUOTE]
Thanks, The WC bickering is getting old and it doesn’t help ones gung fu get better.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1097333]Its a shame everybody isn’t like you on this forum Phil!!! There would be less bickering.
GH[/QUOTE]
???
Youve been bagging anything non-pb fo months!
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1097188]The character for Fuhk/Fook that ALL WC people use means control/subdue. Not hidden. Here’s the character . Please show it to anyone who can read Chinese. If they tell you it means hidden then thank you for teaching me something new.[/QUOTE]
Well, at least you have the right character here Phil, because that was not the character used by others here
As for the ‘hidden’ reference, I know that many various dictionaries have a massive array of variations, and in fact whack that character into Google translate and you will get ‘conceal’ 
http://translate.google.co.uk/?hl=en&tab=wT#auto|en|伏
Always being open to learning should be mandatory for all Wing Chun teachers imho as I learn new things about myself and my style every single day! One of the many reasons I still love Wing Chun