Sil Lim Tau Applications?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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1

Can any one share their views on the applications of Sil Lim Tao?

There are alot of incredible experience and knowledgable people on this Forum who can benefit Newbies to Wing Chun on many of the applications of indiviual forms. The three hand forms are a Dictionary of Techniques. With Various applications that may be taught by your Sifu or even experience or discovered through your own practice,sparring or drilling. I have discovered many applications years later from due diligence,practice and meditation. There are other things that I do to help me discovered possible uses for techniques in the forms. But also I listen to other Sifu’s and asked questions and sometimes watch videos of Form break downs. Its always amazing to see the infinite applications.

I would love to hear from you guys some of Applications of SLT you learned or discovered.

Please share two or three applications you know of?

I do not mean to tell every single applications, just share a few applications.

Please share useful information:

2

Good grief

There are endless applications of motions from the slt plus the structural and other benefits
from the slt.
Curious Yoshiyahu who is/was your wing chun sifu and how long did you study with your sifu ona regular basis?

joy chaudhuri

3

Yes, Yoshiyahu, with your 16 years of Wing Chun and your friends who are wrestlers, uncle’s friendship with an Aikido master, etc. surely you have some hard-won insights of your own to start the ball rolling.

I too would be interested to hear who your Sifu is, and since on another thread you said you wanted to hook up with people and underground fighting clubs in your area, why not tell us your real name and some idea of how like minded people in your area can contact you?

4

My Sifu is a man who studied under Robert McField and Eddie Mau. He doesn’t like me to mention his name because he know longer teaches the WC to newcomers and doesn’t want any challenges. But he does teach Tai Chi now and health aspects. We still go over Chi Sau every week and he refines me on certain things I need in my WC now. I was 16 when I first started learning WC from him. I studied regularly up until about when I was 22 years old. Maybe a little older Don’t remember. I studied off and on after that. Kinda of down period. Just pretty much worked out on my own for awhile and with my other WC brothers. Sparred people here and there to get experience to find out what works and doesn’t work. Now I usually see my Sifu on Week ends.

Also I study with my Sifu’s big brother last year…

I agree my Sifu says the applications are infinite. Some of them I have been taught are a little different than your lineage but most of applications will be similiar.

Let me start off with sharing my favorite applications.

Near the end you have bong sau-tan sau-tok sau.

One application is you Bong Sau an straight punch an then Tan or lop sau. Another application is you Tok Sau the opponents leading arm by lifting up from the elbow while striking with the other hand.

Another application i love is Pak Sau Man sau some lineages do

Pak-Man-Punch
others do
Pak-Man-Palmstrike

But in either case you could pak sau one punch and man sau the next punch with the same hand. So you use one hand to block two punch combo. Of Course you could follow with a palm,punch,Gee to throat or face.

As for Anerlich if you want personally information…please private message me…I will give you my contact info…

But its useless if your not in St.louis!

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;925406]There are endless applications of motions from the slt plus the structural and other benefits
from the slt.
Curious Yoshiyahu who is/was your wing chun sifu and how long did you study with your sifu ona regular basis?

joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]

5

My Sifu is a man who studied under Robert McField and Eddie Mau. He doesn’t like me to mention his name because he know longer teaches the WC to newcomers and doesn’t want any challenges.

LOL, sounds like all Wing Chun in St Louis is done in underground secret societies and by invitation only run by retired masters who are now in witness protection with secret identities.

please private message me.

That would be useless and not only because I’m not in St Louis.

6

Yea it does sound that way. I am not awaiting to join the Pak Mei secret society in St.louis but have not met any practioners. But any way. Anerlich. can you share some of your opinions or what you learn as way of applications of Sil Lim Tao. I think this discussion would be a more useful one other then getting to know me on a more personal note?

So hey guys any time your ready please share some of your applications?

For instance:

When you punch and Huen Sau.

One can look at it this way. You punch a guy who intercepts and grabs your wrist and before he can apply a lock or chin na you circle the wrist and then free your hand or reverse the lock.

What are some other Applications of SLT?

[QUOTE=anerlich;925420]LOL, sounds like all Wing Chun in St Louis is done in underground secret societies and by invitation only run by retired masters who are now in witness protection with secret identities.

That would be useless and not only because I’m not in St Louis.[/QUOTE]

7

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;925488]
When you punch and Huen Sau.

One can look at it this way. You punch a guy who intercepts and grabs your wrist and before he can apply a lock or chin na you circle the wrist and then free your hand or reverse the lock.
[/QUOTE]

How about you punch, he paks, you huen sau (spelling???) and punch again. (continuous attack.)

or you punch, he paks, and you huen sau and lop if his hand is still there.

The options are limitless.

8

For Yoshiyahu(responses in brackets in his text)

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;925416]My Sifu is a man who studied under Robert McField and Eddie Mau.
((Dont know them…))

I agree my Sifu says the applications are infinite. Some of them I have been taught are a little different than your lineage but most of applications will be similiar.

((How would you know what my “lineage” does or doesn’t do?))

Let me start off with sharing my favorite applications.

((BTW-I try not to depend only on favorites-important to work on motions that you are not good at. I try to be non attached to any favorites-of course that’s an ideal. In the real world a favorite can get you into trouble specially when the other fella(s) know(s) what you are likely to do!!))

Near the end you have bong sau-tan sau-tok sau.

((“You”? Who me? In my slt -towards the end before kuen and tuit sao sections there is-
bong /tan and pau. There is tok sao in the mok jong. There are lots of “adjustments” in applications.SLT is about mastery of motions in addition to developing key concepts, structure and awareness. Total body dynamics and things like distance and position and timing changes details))

One application is you Bong Sau an straight punch an then Tan or lop sau. Another application is you Tok Sau the opponents leading arm by lifting up from the elbow while striking with the other hand.

((careful-if you bong sao before a punch-you can get hit-specially if the other hand is not there
to provide support. I don’t think that you can bong sao my jab. Of course I could be wrong!!))

Another application i love is Pak Sau Man sau some lineages do

Pak-Man-Punch
others do
Pak-Man-Palmstrike

((man sao is asking hand- without seeing a pic or something- I have no idea how you use it))

But in either case you could pak sau one punch and man sau the next punch with the same hand.
((there is that man sao again- do you mean wu?))

So you use one hand to block two punch combo. Of Course you could follow with a palm,punch,Gee to throat or face.
((“Of course”?Your opponent may not allow that pre-meditated sequence!))

As for Anerlich if you want personally information…please private message me…I will give you my contact info…

But its useless if your not in St.louis![/QUOTE]

((I (Joy) have been in St Louis-used to have relatives and friends there- some moved others went to happy hunting grounds-been to the river, the arch and the zoo…not planning to be there in the near future. Joy Chaudhuri)))

9

After some research I was able to ascertain that Robert McField was a student of one Eddie Ma.

This link may be relevant; uncertain as I can not view Youtube from work.

However the text that pops up in Google states

From Robert McField a student of Eddie Ma. Eddie’s lineage was a secret he would never tell us …

Compare to

My Sifu is a man who studied under Robert McField and Eddie Mau. He doesn’t like me to mention his name because he know longer teaches the WC to newcomers and doesn’t want any challenges.

I can not find any reference to an Eddie Mau.

I did find this: But I don’t know how relevant a link from a previous thread is.

10

SNT is not about applications, per se.

As I’ve written before, IMO, SNT is for reprogramming the brain/body to use the elbow and ingrain certain structural positions. I find that there are few ‘applications’ such as one move following another move that can be used in a fight.

11

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;925488]

For instance:

When you punch and Huen Sau.

One can look at it this way. You punch a guy who intercepts and grabs your wrist and before he can apply a lock or chin na you circle the wrist and then free your hand or reverse the lock.

What are some other Applications of SLT?[/QUOTE]

just quickly

the lee shing lineage snt that i have been taught int he 1st section has punch, tan, huen, fingers ‘scrape’ to eyes. in theabove scenario:

punch is blocked with a tan. you perform huen sau to get around it and are stopped whilst still on the outside. the finger scrape is done and hopefully catches the eye! might not end the fight but it will (at least momentarily) end his vision) it also has a use for when you use bui sau and it is compromised by you either attacking the wrong space, or them trapping your movement.

will possibly share a bit more later…

12

[QUOTE=SimonM;925509]After some research I was able to ascertain that Robert McField was a student of one Eddie Ma.

This link may be relevant; uncertain as I can not view Youtube from work.

However the text that pops up in Google states

Compare to

I can not find any reference to an Eddie Mau.

I did find this: But I don’t know how relevant a link from a previous thread is.[/QUOTE]

Okay as for Your search and so forth…Eddie Mau lineage is from the Yuen Kay San. If you see the forms and some of the basics you will realize that…As for secrets. Some guys don’t care for head knowledge or lineages. I never really cared about who taught who what and lineage. Just last year I started really inquiring about lineage. I never cared. i just rather learn how to use the system and fight with it and cultivate energy and skill…That has been by focus on the past decade…

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;925508]((I (Joy) have been in St Louis-used to have relatives and friends there- some moved others went to happy hunting grounds-been to the river, the arch and the zoo…not planning to be there in the near future. Joy Chaudhuri)))[/QUOTE]

Well if you ever in St.louis email me kohen_hagadol@yahoo.com

[QUOTE=couch;925522]SNT is not about applications, per se.

As I’ve written before, IMO, SNT is for reprogramming the brain/body to use the elbow and ingrain certain structural positions. I find that there are few ‘applications’ such as one move following another move that can be used in a fight.[/QUOTE]

I agree totally and SLT also helps to develop Short power. But what are some of limitless applications you can think of?

As for following each move systematically in a fight…thats unrealistic. You may use a bong Sau and then punch or kick. You can Tan Sau while punching with the other hand at the same time an also pak da etc. You can use those hands accompanied with kicks or punches. Its not etched in stone. But following each movement verbatim in a fight is not what I meant. But simple applications that can be stated for those who have no idea…not even an inkling of one part of SLT. This way we can demystify SLT making it something others can understand instead of arbritary hand motions.

[QUOTE=LSWCTN1;925542]just quickly

the lee shing lineage snt that i have been taught int he 1st section has punch, tan, huen, fingers ‘scrape’ to eyes. in theabove scenario:

punch is blocked with a tan. you perform huen sau to get around it and are stopped whilst still on the outside. the finger scrape is done and hopefully catches the eye! might not end the fight but it will (at least momentarily) end his vision) it also has a use for when you use bui sau and it is compromised by you either attacking the wrong space, or them trapping your movement.

will possibly share a bit more later…[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much you are one the few who actually shared what this thread is really about thank you…

13

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;925544]Okay as for Your search and so forth…Eddie Mau lineage is from the Yuen Kay San. If you see the forms and some of the basics you will realize that…As for secrets. Some guys don’t care for head knowledge or lineages. I never really cared about who taught who what and lineage. Just last year I started really inquiring about lineage. I never cared. i just rather learn how to use the system and fight with it and cultivate energy and skill…That has been by focus on the past decade…

[/QUOTE]

There were some pretty serious allegations made with regards to Robert McField in the thread I’ve unearthed. They may be false they may not but you might want to look into them.

With regards to lineage I can only find reference to Yuen Kay San teaching two people; Sum Lung and Wong Jing so the lineage still has some holes. Of course the biggest holes are twofold:

  1. your refusal to name YOUR sifu - the most important person other than yourself for the purposes of assessing your training.

  2. your referencing of both Robert McField and the person who I suspect is Eddie Ma (as the coincidence of McField teaching the same students as an unknown - Eddie Mau - after being himself taught by (known) Eddie Ma is rather straining of credibility) as instructors of your unnamed Sifu.

Now your instruction seems to include references to much of the bupkiss (powering up chi attacks and such) that underline the worst of McDojos; if this is in fact coming from your teacher and in light of the dirt I got from a short morning of half-hearted digging you might want to consider finding a new instructor.

Preferrably somebody who doesn’t pretend to ultra-secret-super-ninja status.

14

[QUOTE=couch;925522]SNT is not about applications, per se.

As I’ve written before, IMO, SNT is for reprogramming the brain/body to use the elbow and ingrain certain structural positions. I find that there are few ‘applications’ such as one move following another move that can be used in a fight.[/QUOTE]

on the whole, for the most part, i agree completely

i do think that there can be different ways of performing the same sequence - and i dont just mean fluidity and intent.

this could actually prove to be a very interesting thread if people choose to contribute!

15

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;925544]
As for following each move systematically in a fight…thats unrealistic. You may use a bong Sau and then punch or kick. You can Tan Sau while punching with the other hand at the same time an also pak da etc. You can use those hands accompanied with kicks or punches. Its not etched in stone. But following each movement verbatim in a fight is not what I meant. But simple applications that can be stated for those who have no idea…not even an inkling of one part of SLT. This way we can demystify SLT making it something others can understand instead of arbritary hand motions.

Thank you very much you are one the few who actually shared what this thread is really about thank you…[/QUOTE]

I like to think of Wing Chun being as close to boxing as anything. So everything you do is training your punch. All I want to do is hit the guy and protect myself on the way to do it. If my strike is intercepted, I use a WC tool the clear and continue hitting.

I understand what you are looking to discuss, as well. You say, “But simple applications that can be stated for those who have no idea…not even an inkling of one part of SLT.”

For this, I won’t look to SNT. I will look in two other places: CK and MYJ. In my lineage, they both start off the same: with a Biu. Simple idea is to bridge and the easiest way to do that is to Biu/hit.

Hard topic to talk about. Hope that I’m making sense and am contributing something.

Cheers.

16

I am not awaiting to join the Pak Mei secret society in St.louis but have not met any practioners.

LOL. They mustn’t read KFO, otherwise I’m sure they’d be falling all over themselves to get in touch.

17

[QUOTE=SimonM;925546]There were some pretty serious allegations made with regards to Robert McField in the thread I’ve unearthed. They may be false they may not but you might want to look into them.

With regards to lineage I can only find reference to Yuen Kay San teaching two people; Sum Lung and Wong Jing so the lineage still has some holes. Of course the biggest holes are twofold:

  1. your refusal to name YOUR sifu - the most important person other than yourself for the purposes of assessing your training.

  2. your referencing of both Robert McField and the person who I suspect is Eddie Ma (as the coincidence of McField teaching the same students as an unknown - Eddie Mau - after being himself taught by (known) Eddie Ma is rather straining of credibility) as instructors of your unnamed Sifu.

Now your instruction seems to include references to much of the bupkiss (powering up chi attacks and such) that underline the worst of McDojos; if this is in fact coming from your teacher and in light of the dirt I got from a short morning of half-hearted digging you might want to consider finding a new instructor.

Preferrably somebody who doesn’t pretend to ultra-secret-super-ninja status.[/QUOTE]

Well I choose not to name my Sifu because of all the propaganda and BS that went down 20 years ago with McField and other Gung Fu Schools they challenge. As for the credibility of my Sifu,his Sihing and others he fellowships with. I have nothing but the most respect. In fact through him I have learn alot. More useful stuff with him then when I studied Aikido and Judo as a kid.

As for McDojos. My Sifu always says practicing the baiscs diligently is the key. All the other stuff he doesn’t Rant and Rave on.

As for lineage…I really could care less. But my question was about applications of SLT? If you have any ideas to applications please share. If not then read another thread?

[QUOTE=couch;925571]I like to think of Wing Chun being as close to boxing as anything. So everything you do is training your punch. All I want to do is hit the guy and protect myself on the way to do it. If my strike is intercepted, I use a WC tool the clear and continue hitting.

I understand what you are looking to discuss, as well. You say, “But simple applications that can be stated for those who have no idea…not even an inkling of one part of SLT.”

For this, I won’t look to SNT. I will look in two other places: CK and MYJ. In my lineage, they both start off the same: with a Biu. Simple idea is to bridge and the easiest way to do that is to Biu/hit.

Hard topic to talk about. Hope that I’m making sense and am contributing something.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]

Thankyou for your contribution. I started this thread because on another forum I know some people had questions about SLT an the people on that thread really never offered any answers. Also another guy asked me recently about SLT applications. I shared some answers with him. But decided to start this thread as well for him an others like him so he can see a list of applications by others way wiser than me. As for Chum Kiu and Mook Jong applications i will talk about those later. Thanks again for saying something useful.

[QUOTE=anerlich;925575]LOL. They mustn’t read KFO, otherwise I’m sure they’d be falling all over themselves to get in touch.[/QUOTE]

Ha Ha lol…So anerlich do you have any useful applications to share concerning Sil Lim Tau?

18

Useful applications from SLT? All of them. Plus the energetics (body mechanics and structure). Broad subject area much?

What exactly are you asking? People to detail each move from SLT and how to use it? Sorry, there’s no way of putting this without coming off as rude, but you sure do ask a lot of stupid questions.

19

Too Broad

Oh okay…my bad…I will edit my post a little…

But what I mean is for some of you guys to share a few applications…not the entire form technique by technique break down…But just share one two or three techniques you learned or discovered…

The reason I picked this broad topic…because i felt it would be easy for everyone to contribute…even some newbies to WC!

Sorry for the stupid questions…Just passing the time an sharing info with others on slick tip…

[QUOTE=Mr Punch;925655]Useful applications from SLT? All of them. Plus the energetics (body mechanics and structure). Broad subject area much?

What exactly are you asking? People to detail each move from SLT and how to use it? Sorry, there’s no way of putting this without coming off as rude, but you sure do ask a lot of stupid questions.[/QUOTE]

20

The crossing, finding the centreline, at the start is similar to the mechanics of the basic cross collar choke in gi (or as Mouthboy108 would call it, the kymono) grappling.

The gum/tan section simulates the action of guillotine choke, hanging choke and several other standing chokes.

The fut sao section (eye sweeps) have applications for cutting armbars and the like.

Grappling applications in SLT? Well well. Of course just doing the form won’t help you apply these in an actual encounter.

You asked for three. Now stop bothering me and return to the search for those St Louis underground fighting clubs.