What does it actually mean,(not so much how the words translate literally, but figuratively as well) and why was that name chosen?
I believe in some cases, the name of the set often tells alot, similarly to the kuen kuit.
Hello TenTigers,
In Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen we have two variations on that term.
Siu Nim Tao - Little idea in the beginning
Siu Lin Tao - Little drilling in the beginning
I believe the Yip Man lines use “Siu Nim Tao” only. Many consider it to merely be a pronunciation difference, for my family that is not the case.
Take Care,
~Eric
“Siu” translates into small, compact, without waste.
“Nim” translates into immersing yourself in the study of a subject; “Lien” refers to training.
“Tao” refers to your head.
Putting it all together, you get the message to put in your head to study or train in using small, compact movements.
FWIW, it was Yip Man who changed the name of the first form from Siu Lien Tao to Siu Nim Tao, and other branches of WCK have adopted that change. Apparently when Sum Nung learned that Yip had changed the names of WCK’s first two forms, he is said to have commented along the lines of “that’s not bad.”
Responding to Ten Tigers question-only briefly
[QUOTE=TenTigers;986278]What does it actually mean,(not so much how the words translate literally, but figuratively as well) and why was that name chosen?
I believe in some cases, the name of the set often tells alot, similarly to the kuen kuit.[/QUOTE]
- pronunciations can vary region to region-Fatshan Toishan etc and strictly literal translation
can by pass “tacit knowledge” which can help understand a serious subject.And there can be various levels of understanding the meaning of sil lim tau
2.At a basic level it’s about embedding a starting fundamental idea of the art of wing chun in oneself- once embedded properly, the idea grows with proper practice, awareness, application and experience, and is no longer little… it becomes vast and open ended.Quieten the mind, internalize the understanding by doing things correctly. Aspects of kuen kuit point towards doing sil lim tau correctly.
joy chaudhuri
It was told to me as “Use Your Imagination”, by a man that spoke Canton. Use your head, use your imagination. Would do tan sao left, right, left, right, left, right. Over a hundred times, Then punch left, right, left, right. Over a hundred times. Bong sao left, right, mid level, high level, low level, over a hundred times. Anything you need to work on, put it into Sil Lim and do it multiple times. You do not have to have a set form. You can add and take away as you need to add and take away. Just use a little imagination.
Just like in any language there are varied levels of comprehension. Just because a person speaks a language it doesn’t make them an academic in their own native tongue. Knowing this I asked to different University Professors of Chinese to explain to me what SNT meant.
The one in Detroit spoke Cantonese and after having thought for a while gave me the example of an old newspaper cartoon character with a balloon over his head with a light bulb. Implying that said character had an idea. So he said it’s like having multiple detailed concepts in your tauh (head). Ok, that still didn’t quite do it for me.
Then I moved to NJ. At the NJ school we have a Chinese Professor teaching Mandarin classes. After seeing the Chinese characters for Siu Nihm Tauh he thought for a while and said epiphany. It’s like having small epiphanies in your head or contemplating small details
I learned it as “little idea.” To me, this means basic Martial ideas. SLT can therefore be a basic progression of fighting ideas, expressed in shadow boxing form.
i have little idea what it means.
It means “A little presence in the moment as a foundation”.
It also means to get out of your own way.
Make the “Little” me come into the grand nature, and put that first.
It is a failure to not live up to Siu Nim Tao.
Here’s a crazy different take:
-
siulim (shaolin in fujian dialect)
-
tao (thought or way)
The Way of Shaolin?
[QUOTE=mikelee;986496]Here’s a crazy different take:
-
siulim (shaolin in fujian dialect)
-
tao (thought or way)
The Way of Shaolin?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, that is totally wrong. The Chinese characters are not what you mention. Who is your teacher? If that is what he/she taught you, you are taught something totally incorrect.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;986355]… Then I moved to NJ. At the NJ school we have a Chinese Professor teaching Mandarin classes. After seeing the Chinese characters for Siu Nihm Tauh he thought for a while and said epiphany. It’s like having small epiphanies in your head or contemplating small details[/QUOTE]
I like this interpretation as it reflects the simplest explanation of what all three characters mean as one whole. But I would still explain to a new student that it basically translates as “Little Idea”.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;986355]2.At a basic level it’s about embedding a starting fundamental idea of the art of wing chun in oneself- once embedded properly, the idea grows with proper practice, awareness, application and experience, and is no longer little… it becomes vast and open ended.Quieten the mind, internalize the understanding by doing things correctly. Aspects of kuen kuit point towards doing sil lim tau correctly.[/QUOTE]
Also an excellent way of describing the purpose of SLT and why it’s mostly used at the beginning of a students training in Wing Chun.
FWIW I was often told that without Siu Lim Tao there can be no Chum Kiu, no Chum Kiu no Biu Jii so I’d guess that this little idea has some very important knowledge locked within it. Somewhere!
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;986355]Just like in any language there are varied levels of comprehension. Jus because a person speaks a language it doesn’t make them an academic in their own native tongue. Knowing this I asked to different University Professors of Chinese to explain to me what SNT meant.
The one in Detroit spoke Cantonese and after having thought for a while gave me the example of an old newspaper cartoon character with a ballon over his head with a light bulb. Implying that said character had an idea. So he said it’s like having multiple detailed concepts in your tauh (head). Ok, that still didn’t quite do it for me.
Then I moved to NJ. At the NJ school we have a Chinese Professor teaching Mandarin classes. After seeing the Chinese characters for Siu Nihm Tauh he thought for a while and said epiphany. It’s like having small epiphanies in your head or contemplating small details[/QUOTE]
Is this not the very same thing as using your imagination? Just put into different words?
[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;986345]Anything you need to work on, put it into Sil Lim and do it multiple times. You do not have to have a set form. You can add and take away as you need to add and take away. Just use a little imagination.[/QUOTE]
Very interesting too, as it sounds like we were taught by the same guy!
Although I have to say, I was always under the impression that Ip Man himself ‘took everything away’ and stripped the set back to it’s basics we commonly see today SO you can’t take away any more but you can add as much or as little as you please. 
Sil Lim is simple. So simple that what you see is what you get. There is nothing hidden within it. No secrets. We can alter it or leave it be, depending upon our needs. I have altered and added techniques, repeated techniques over and over, all sorts of things that I might have had trouble with. It is a very simple training aid that habituates your actions to be the same every time you apply them. Trying to read too much into it is going to make it far too complicated. It should not be complicated at all, but remain as simple as you can possibly make it.
I think people try to see hidden information in the moves, but what they are looking at are concepts that can be applied to various situations, but these are not secret or hidden. You just have to use a little imagination.
LCP
Sil Lim is simple. So simple that what you see is what you get. There is nothing hidden within it. No secrets. We can alter it or leave it be, depending upon our needs. I have altered and added techniques, repeated techniques over and over, all sorts of things that I might have had trouble with. It is a very simple training aid that habituates your actions to be the same every time you apply them. Trying to read too much into it is going to make it far too complicated. It should not be complicated at all, but remain as simple as you can possibly make it.
I think people try to see hidden information in the moves, but what they are looking at are concepts that can be applied to various situations, but these are not secret or hidden. You just have to use a little imagination.
LCP
[QUOTE=chusauli;986485]It means “A little presence in the moment as a foundation”.
It also means to get out of your own way.
Make the “Little” me come into the grand nature, and put that first.
It is a failure to not live up to Siu Nim Tao.[/QUOTE]
I like that definition. 
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on how you came to that interpretation?
Thanks!
Siu means Minute, detail, subtle
Lien means training
Tau means essential
So,
Siu Lien Tau = Essential of Minute/Detail/subtle training.
In today’s word, it means the devil is in the details training.
According to evidence, we now know:
Siu of Siu Lien Tau was inherit from the Siu Training of Emei 12 Zhuang.
In Emei 12 Zhuang, Siu training is to train using the intention to subdue both one’s own mind and the enemy. In this training, it uses fast Qi and Jing operation with the emphasis on all things source from the minute details.
Also, this training is to train to know the details and subtle so that one could liberate or remove one’s limitation.
This is a set give birth to unlimited applications via one liberates or remove one’s limitation.
So, why is it not training applications? because every application is a limit. and to have no limit means one needs to be unbound. and Thus, again, the training is suppose to remove one’s limitation in mind and body.
It is via this remove of one’s limitation one be able to make use of everyting without be tie up by a certain concept or certain move.
However, for past 100 years or so, this set has become a training of tie oneself up instead of librate oneself to unleast the power of unbound and using a minute move or effortless to dissolve the incoming attack.
SLT is not a basic set but an advance set. an advance set to help one remove one’s limitation into formless. Thus, it said come accept goes let it, using silence to lead action.
The training of SLT is a journey of liberation toward boundless. the lesser one’s limitation the closer one could do the come accept… and thus the closer one to the silence.
It is an un ended journey but keep refining in every practice. It is not doing something to meet certain criterial or form or shape.
The core of training it is as simple as at every move can one be mindfully aware with the mind quiet and totally effortless to move the physical with ease.
This quiet mind and effortless physical with ease are the weapon one cultivate and carry with one when facing challenge. Not some robotic programing applications or structure. It is about let go and let GOD be.
The reason of it is fast in response because there is lesser and lesser limit or obstrucle in mind and body after one keep training with it.
The reason it can resolve incoming force with ease and effortless because it doesnt create limitation for oneself in term of mind and body and it doesnt bewitch by others’ move or momentum, nothing fix thus everything flow.
Why Qi is also train in this set? because when the body is loosing up, the mind quiet down, the breathing deepen, Qi realm got to surface to aid one to have better handling of one’s body inward.
That simple, let go and let God be, but most cant do it.
Happiness/Freedom = Simple
Struggle = complex
If your training doesnt lead you to the Happiness and Freedom, try my simple path and see for yourself.
[QUOTE=dirtyrat;986599]I like that definition.
Would you be so kind as to elaborate on how you came to that interpretation?
Thanks![/QUOTE]
Siu = small, but one is represented by one’s self is small; what counts is the great or Buddha Nature…
Nim = composed of 2 characters: Present mind
Tao = the head, the start, the foundation.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;986628]Siu means Minute, detail, subtle
Lien means training
Tau means essential
So,
Siu Lien Tau = Essential of Minute/Detail/subtle training.
In today’s word, it means the devil is in the details training.
According to evidence, we now know:
Siu of Siu Lien Tau was inherit from the Siu Training of Emei 12 Zhuang.
In Emei 12 Zhuang, Siu training is to train using the intention to subdue both one’s own mind and the enemy. In this training, it uses fast Qi and Jing operation with the emphasis on all things source from the minute details.
Also, this training is to train to know the details and subtle so that one could liberate or remove one’s limitation.
This is a set give birth to unlimited applications via one liberates or remove one’s limitation.
So, why is it not training applications? because every application is a limit. and to have no limit means one needs to be unbound. and Thus, again, the training is suppose to remove one’s limitation in mind and body.
It is via this remove of one’s limitation one be able to make use of everyting without be tie up by a certain concept or certain move.
However, for past 100 years or so, this set has become a training of tie oneself up instead of librate oneself to unleast the power of unbound and using a minute move or effortless to dissolve the incoming attack.
SLT is not a basic set but an advance set. an advance set to help one remove one’s limitation into formless. Thus, it said come accept goes let it, using silence to lead action.
The training of SLT is a journey of liberation toward boundless. the lesser one’s limitation the closer one could do the come accept… and thus the closer one to the silence.
It is an un ended journey but keep refining in every practice. It is not doing something to meet certain criterial or form or shape.
The core of training it is as simple as at every move can one be mindfully aware with the mind quiet and totally effortless to move the physical with ease.
This quiet mind and effortless physical with ease are the weapon one cultivate and carry with one when facing challenge. Not some robotic programing applications or structure. It is about let go and let GOD be.
The reason of it is fast in response because there is lesser and lesser limit or obstrucle in mind and body after one keep training with it.
The reason it can resolve incoming force with ease and effortless because it doesnt create limitation for oneself in term of mind and body and it doesnt bewitch by others’ move or momentum, nothing fix thus everything flow.
Why Qi is also train in this set? because when the body is loosing up, the mind quiet down, the breathing deepen, Qi realm got to surface to aid one to have better handling of one’s body inward.
That simple, let go and let God be, but most cant do it.
Happiness/Freedom = Simple
Struggle = complex
If your training doesnt lead you to the Happiness and Freedom, try my simple path and see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2nxr...eature=related
[/QUOTE]
This is what I mean by complicated. This is enough to confuse anyone. I have read this over and over in order to be fair in my assessment, but I have to say that I am still just as confused. Sil Lim is not ment to be complicated. It is ment to be simple. Simple is best understood, where complicated is seldom understood.
Everything has a beginning. Everything. Even Wing Chun training. Sil Lim is the beginning. It is a simple hand form where one links all his hand techniques in a chain and trains them going from one to the next, left and then right, so that both hands get the same training. It teaches the new trainee how to apply his techniques by doing them over and over. The day comes when it is no longer as necessary as it is in the beginning. You then move to the next forms.