I’ve read posts where people do slt for ridiculous amounts of time, hours, hour, 45 minutes. I’m sure doing slt builds chi and intent and all that other good stuff, but come on! In the famous words from “Ferris Buler’s DAy Off,” well I dont know the exact quote. SOmething about life passing u buy if u dont look around. Anyway, that’s what will happen if u stand around doing slt tao forever. What happened to practicing chum kiu and bil gee? Not sil lum tao! Sure, it builds patients. Doing push ups also builds patience. Holding in yor sh!t and **** builds patience as well. Does anyone else get my point?
I hope this post will be of some use
By the way the above post was stated, I don’t know if this will be worth my effort.
I believe that SLT should be done regularly for 10 to 15 minutes at a time. To do it longer IMHO is not really necessary. It should be done slow to develop long-bridge energy, to be able to work on proper position and techniques, to develop rootedness, and to work on the energy within those techniques. It should be done relaxed and with minimal strength so more interal energy is used versus too much external energy. Doing it over 10 to 15 minutes versus one minute allows you to focus on the specifics.
SLT is the most important because it provides the foundation for the higher levels. The stronger the foundation, the stronger the higher levels will become.
We are looking for schools/students to teach this softer method to. If you are interested, please contact me at: wingchunner@yahoo.com Serious inquiries only.
Thank you,
Marty
My obsession stems from the fact that I want to have good kung fu and without lots & lots of SNT/SLT it won’t happen.
2nd effort
Chum kil doesn’t take as long, so it can be done more. There is a lot to learn from both forms. If you are ‘just doing the forms’ without much thought, then the author of the original post is correct: don’t let your life pass you by. But, if you are practicing the forms with thought, then you should be improving on a regular basis. If not, then you may be practicing something incorrect.
Marty
Re: What’s with this obsession with practicing Sil lum tao?
Originally posted by fgxpanzerz
I’ve read posts where people do slt for ridiculous amounts of time, hours, hour, 45 minutes. I’m sure doing slt builds chi and intent and all that other good stuff, but come on! In the famous words from “Ferris Buler’s DAy Off,” well I dont know the exact quote. SOmething about life passing u buy if u dont look around. Anyway, that’s what will happen if u stand around doing slt tao forever. What happened to practicing chum kiu and bil gee? Not sil lum tao! Sure, it builds patients. Doing push ups also builds patience. Holding in yor sh!t and **** builds patience as well. Does anyone else get my point?
Ok, I don’t take 45 minutes to do slt. At least, not yet. I do take
about 15 minutes to do slt.
It’s not just about building chi. It’s not just about building
patience. Um… ok, I’m not even sure it’s about building patience
in the first place.
It can improve your stance, and by this, I don’t just mean make
your legs stronger. It can work on your posture (an important
and sometimes overlooked thing in Wing Chun). It helps build
chi, yes, but it also helps you learn to use your energy correctly.
It can improve so many different things in Wing Chun, I don’t
know that I could list them all. I’m not sure I see them all.
I do SLT (and all my forms, for that matter) everyday. Almost
everyday (and I’m in my third year with SLT), I learn something
more from it.
One of the most interesting things is how practicing my forms can
improve my two man drills (and vice versa).
If you get bored while doing your forms, or other “beginner” stuff.
Try taking a critical look at what you’re doing and ask yourself
if there’s anything you could be improving within that drill.
I don’t think it’s necessary to spend 45 minutes on SLT, 15 to 20 is plenty.
Why do SLT at all? It’s the foundation of WC, everything boils down to the principles contained in it. WC is a game of absolute precision and completely controlled intent. That’s what SLT teaches over time (precision and intent), so doing your SLT over and over and over again, with focus, is what will eventually make it possible for you to end an encounter in the fabled 3 moves. 
Very well put Jas
Regards
Dave F
I have been told 15 minutes is good, twenty is ok, more is of no use. You need to take your time, but sitting there all day is not going to help. Some say yip man did it so long to build Chi, so I suppose if you believe in it then there would be a good reason.
I’m not a subscriber to the “longer is always better” theory either.
SLT (and any other form) needs to be done with focused energy and intent. Spend too long going through it, the mind wanders and the “elastic energy” cannot be maintained. Slow is good to facilitate relaxation, explore flow and perfect structure, but too slow the quality of the movement changes and gets away from the original intent. Intelligent striking requires the use of “pre-stretch” of the tissues and storing and releasing elastic energy, which cannot be done slowly.
I’d rather do it several times in a given period than one overly long stint. You’re training the stance for the same period of time either way.
i have posted this before & will not post it again.
i’m sorry if you disagree or don’t understand but either way it’s your loss.
Re: The novel-Barry Lee
Wednesday, 04-Nov-98 20:00:26
193.158.132.241 writes:
Andrew, BL’98.
I will answer your question as soon as I am able.Unfortunately I find
myself particularly busy at present and as I said this is a question
which cannot be answered in a few words.
I would say however that while you are often bound up in biomechanics
and injury as related to sports medicine you are missing the most
important aspects of training.
Sports medicine in particular is a fairly young science and by no
means has all the answers.In fact much can still be learned from
martial arts in particular,which have been around for a very long
time.We often seek to overcome the basic laws of physics and we can
still teach modern medicine a thing or two.
The stance in particular,if done correctly is more likely to relieve
pressure on the spine and correct many back problems while at the
same time strengthening the muscles which support the spine.It builds
strength in the ankles,legs and waist.The waist controls the
generation of power,the direction of force and energy,angles of
attack and defence,absorbtion of impact,the speed of your
step,balance,control,centre of gravity,facing and control of your
centre line and much,much more.You cannot aford to lose this position
and if you do you must be able to retrieve it in an instant.
If you feel pressure in the knees then you are most certainly
standing incorrectly.Do not put your weight in your knees or you will
NEVER be able to step quickly,never be able to use the waist to
propell you forward.You will ultimately “telegraph” your movement
when you step backward and will find yourself dragging your rear foot
when you step forward.You will have an incorrect centre of gravity
while standing still and when you kick and will be easily decimated
by a kick to either your front or your rear leg.You will never
properly control a sudden unrush of power by your opponent and often
will be driven into the ground instead of being able to step or
change direction easily.
The stance is meant to place controlled tension on the joint
areas..those areas easily damaged by quick changes in direction
particularly when under pressure from an opponent always trying to
force you away from your centre,in other words to force your weapon
and with it you away from your intended target.A form of isometric
training if you like which creates great strength in the ligament and
tendon areas of the knees and ankles not to mention the related
muscle areas.
If you cannot hold this toe in stance for long without your feet
straightening,then you will not be able to keep your feet in correct
position when you step..you will open your centre to attack,you will
drag your back foot and your kick will not be spontaneously delivered
from any angle at any time either while standing or in motion and
most importantly you will often find your waist incorrectly
positioned.If you have your back foot turned either out or in
incorrectly a kick to the front leg from the right angle will cause
both legs to collapse and you will lose you centre in the bargain.
It’s an amazeing thing but this toe in stance creates a particular
tension through the legs,in the most important areas of the waist and
back and in the internal muscle groups of the abdominal wall.Without
this tension in the ankle you would find it almost impossible to
learn and feel the correct tension required for balance and strength
throughout your stance.
Also AND PLEASE REMEMBER THERE IS MUCH I HAVE LEFT OUT..
The Ving Tsun Stance is not a normal body position.We spend our whole lives
standing and moving in another way.Do you think that by standing in
this stance for a limited period each day or perhaps three training
days a week that the body will be able to retain this position or
retrieve it instantly when is under the extreme stress and pressure
of a real fighting situation.
Often one hour is all students have today in which to train this
stance due to the comittments of work and family etc and they also
want to go on to other things.What I am saying is that you should not
be in a hurry to proceed and overlook what is a fundimental and most
important part of your Ving Tsun training.Without the roots,without
the foundation the first good wind will uproot the tree.
From the outset,by standing for extra long periods in this stance,you
build correct balance and control of the body,the ability to feel and
draw energy from the ground,the ability to feel and control your
waist,not your waist controlling you,the ability to hold the correct
foot position by training and stretching the related areas.You are
taught the fundamentals of distancing of the feet,direction of your
step,the basis for easy natural kicking,a stance that will not easily
allow the legs to sink when tired.The ability to face and control
your centre and basis of lut sao and everything that siu lim tao
teaches us,which is considerable etc,etc,etc
Lastly and for me very,very important,is something overlooked almost
totally today by most who train in Ving Tsun particularly those who
train to fight.Standing for very long periods in this stance builds a
strength of mind and body which is a very hard combination to
defeat.If you can pass through the period where the boredom sets
in,pass through the burning legs and total body soreness that turns
ice cold and steel your mind to the pain you will eventually really
begin to feel everything that your body is doing and you will truly
be in control of your body not your body in control of you.
If your will cannot be broken you often cannot be beaten.When your
arms are so tired you can no longer hold them up,when a particularly
hard punch or kick really shakes you mentally as well as physically
you will find yourself drawing on reserves you never knew you had and
in a controlled balanced manner,because the body knows automatically
what is expected of it.It is conditioned to hold or take the correct
position particularly with the waist without the need for undue
strain because your training has made it such a natural position that
the surrounding muscles no longer have to TRY to hold it.
I have seen many fights won by strong minds that just would not give
in and many recoveries from almost certain defeat because of
instinctive reaction and a body that automatically positioned and
balanced itself correctly.
There are many other aspects to your Ving Tsun that encompass a
lifetime of learning and the siu lim tao stance is only a small
part,but without the stance there is no siu lim tao.Without siu lim
tao there is no Ving Tsun.Siu Lim Tao is not fighting but it is a
much more important step than many believe,not only to your
understanding but to everything you will be asked to do in the
future.
If you do not give Siu Lim Tao and this stance the time it
deserves,NOTHING ELSE will work for you with maximum efficiency.You
will never really understand your Ving Tsun and each new movement
will be harder to perform correctly..perhaps you never will know or
understand true Ving Tsun.
Regards,
Barry Lee. copyrightBL5.10.'98.
vts
sorry i should add that i know time doesn’t allow alot of us to practice for extended periods but do you really think that any of the great practitioners(i mean great not good) only practiced 20 minute slt.
again i know that it may be difficult to spend extended times doing the first form but making up weak excuses as to why it shouldn’t be done is only an insult to those who came before us & try to pass on the correct knowledge that they were taught.
try it, do it slowly & FEEL the power that comes, i am sure once you have then there will be no reason to ask why the “SILLY” lenghts of time.
vts
Another benefit of lengthy SLT is anger control. Last night I walked away from an offered fight by someone I knew I could destroy. This person had pi$$ed me off no end and I was so enraged when I came home I just wanted to go back there and hammer him.
Instead I practised SLT twice-nice, slow and really concentrating. By the end I was fine, & my wife didn’t have to come home to a grumpy irritated husband.
Many benefits. I think I now know why all the old Kung Fu masters in the movies are so easygoing!
I’d have to see some research on it to be sure, but I doubt that there is much applicable martial or other benefit over a certain amount of time, which is probably under an hour a session. I would think that there would be some negative effects actually, based on how the body reacts when it is overused. I think one of them is related to effects on blood pressure, or something, among others.
In my opinion, some people don’t do SLT as regularly as it should be done because it is not “fun”. Most people go directly to chi sao. While chi sao is important, SLT should not be ignored. Most of the techniques used in chi sao are in SLT. The theories, principles and techniques of wing chun are encapsulated in SLT. We do chi sao in order to apply these theories/principles/techniques into practice. If you don’t know the theories/principles/techniques, how can you apply it and make it work?
I set up that Post and the reason
is simple not just sil lum tao but any series of slow meditatiive movements made to excerise yi, jing and qi are good for muslce tone to do these movements really fast. and when you old weight lifting is not that practical. Potentially Internal Power( this means the combination of yi, qi and jing) is be powerful then just mere brute strength alone.
Tai chi, Yi Quan and Xing Yi,Quan as while as others, have stuff like this, example ZaZhuang. ironically doing Standing meditation(ZaZhaung) or movements very slowy with meditation of yi and qi, build qi faster the just doing the whole form. this is probabley why Yip Man could take 4 hours to do the entire form.
Sil lum tao is Qi-Gong doesnt have to be just Qi-gong but it is Qi gong why else do you think it’s dont in a stationary stance.
I have not been faithful in acheiveing this but today I have started again.
that was the broad prospective but in even more simple explaination:
If Yip Man did it in 4 hours and was one of the best martial artist why not me if I want to be one of the best at Wing CHun.
I think that a message of Sifu Barry Lee says everything. SNT is very, very important part of VT. There is no Vt without SNT. Practising it only 15,20 minutes is to less if you want to be a good fighter.
When I practice Chi Sao and something bad happens to my waist I increase the amount of time I spent on SNT, Dan Chi and Double Dan Chi. It helps very much.
SLT is Wing Chun - some famouus Chinese teacher (the name escapes me sorry) once said that you could use Wing Chun jsut by learning SLT. Not sure if I agree with this wholheartedly but yes - SLT has to be the main focus of attention and should be practised for at least 15 - 20 mins. Anyone who has practised Qi Gong (like myself in previous years) will tell you that quality kung fu takes time and effort, which should be the thinking behind your SLT.
I one went to a Tai Chi class where they taught about 15 postures each lesson. They did not mention rooting, abdomibnal energy, body mechenics - nothing. I then went to a class where we stood in the basic Chi kung rooting stance for 20 - 30 mins before even beginning the Tai Chi form. Have a guess which class i stayed with - yes the latter.
I have ahd similar experiences with WC classes where they dont even practise the forms. Yes - i know you can do this at home and most of the class should be drilling/sparring/chi sau - but you need a good sifu to talk you through the finer points of SLT. The most common mistake ive seen is students not sinking low enough in their stance, thus you are not developing an effective root.
Anyway, Ive gone on a bit of a rant, but they day you underestimate the importance of SLT is the day your WC begins to lose its foundation.
As they staying goes, “everything in moderation”. So all you guys who’ve been standing on top of your local mountain for the past 4 hours can come down now !!!
Best Wishes, Stuart
So all you guys who’ve been standing on top of your local mountain for the past 4 hours can come down now!!!
LOL!!!
Excuse my ignorance guys but what is all this LOL type stuff. Im assuming that IMHO is ‘in my honest opinion’ but im lost ob all the other jargon !
Stuart
lol = laugh out loud