Body shapes in your system, changing from yin to yang, i find that ykm keeps the yin covered and shows the yang shell.
At times yes, our guard changes so it will show the yin then to close up again.
any comments?
FT:D
Clever topic FT & one hand lies. Hakka Tong Long shows nothing & this means no prepositioned hands & no posture & reveals no intent. From outside it looks like deep & calm water & what’s underneath is hidden & flows swift & powerful. We give no bridge
& what looks to be given is in truth taken & it is not the mind that is beaten but the physical person that is destroyed. No matter how strong the will the body destroyed can’t obey the desire to continue. Just my opinion & not fact.
D.T
As we have spoken about yin and yang before, i thought this would be a good topic!
Yin and Yang is in every movement be it, hands, legs steping etc
I have told my guys there isnt any real set on guard position, some of the bak mei people here may disagree, YC in the past has! what im saying is constant shifting and lying as you call it is what im trying to say.
each posture yin or yang has its set ups and defenses and attacks!
cheers
Garry FT:)
Yes agreed FT & can’t we say that one measure of skill is how well a person shifts shape? We say that you wear us like skin & speaks to how well we match up in each moment & movement much more like compliment to the foe than resistence. Better to lie & cooperate than show honest & dictate. Not fact & just opinion so I don’t argue if YC says different.
Shifting between
It is true. Shifting from Yin to Yang quickly takes time and training. In the begining you have to tell yourself to relax before contacting again, but given correct practice and patence the practitioner can shift between hard and soft instantly. It is a skill that is required for the use of the SPM “Shock” power.
last master
Correct, but there is yin strikes and yang strikes!!
D.T,
Yes agreed FT & can’t we say that one measure of skill is how well a person shifts shape?
A. I think so, especially when 2 are fighting, using the persons energy, coutering with shapes takes a certain skill, training lots of energy work with each other.
I wasnt saying YC is wrong he was the only one that came to my mind when bringing up this topic. SORRY YUMMY!!
What can i say u bring out the best in me.hehehe
cheers
FT:)
Very sly of you FT & I don’t think many will pickup on what you’ve said & I don’t want to spoil it for you if you want people to dig inside to find an answer they can live with so I leave this alone for a day or so, okay? If noone answers then I point out what you have written & most will say oh, I get it now & that’s good & even better if someone else just says it but they should let people think a bit.
D.T
hahahaha, yeah i was waiting for you! I was hoping someone was going to pick up on what i wrote.
FT:)
Originally posted by Diamond Talons
Clever topic FT & one hand lies. Hakka Tong Long shows nothing & this means no prepositioned hands & no posture & reveals no intent. From outside it looks like deep & calm water & what’s underneath is hidden & flows swift & powerful. We give no bridge
& what looks to be given is in truth taken & it is not the mind that is beaten but the physical person that is destroyed. No matter how strong the will the body destroyed can’t obey the desire to continue. Just my opinion & not fact.
Very well put DT!
Although no intent is shown in Mantis, I still think the stance and guard has a very stern “don’t f*ck with me” attitude about it.
Speaking yin and yang - I was in a park yesterday watching some other martial artists practice their wares. At one stage they did some punching defence. Basically, one guy attacked with a flurry of punches and with every punch the defender yielded. It was a case of yin, yin, yin, yin… and the attackers was becoming more yang with every step. The entire approach was was fundamentally flawed.
Yang and Yin must be used in concert with each other. A simple practice so often overlooked or misunderstood.
Thoughts?
TAOBOY
Thats why the mindset must be drilled into students and use overkill, as having the defensive mindset wont help you, offensive mindset is what must be taugt.
Also your attack is your defense so straight away soon as someone moved your in and striking.
thats my thoughts
FT:)
Offensive - Defensive
Teaching the student to be on the offensive will probably work, as in most southern kung fu systems attack and defence are integrated in single devistating techniques with fearsome power behind them. Again both Yin and Yang come into play.
En Garde
Hi Guys,
Yes, FT was party to an exploration I went through, looking for the essential en-garde stance. This was and to some extent is still one of my little pet queries, I wouldn’t go so far as to say it is a Pak Mei Pai issue.
DT very eloquently sort of puts it in a nutshell, and there is nothing there that any sensible player might disagree with, however I feel more inclined to agree with FT in the attitude presented, beyond any particular posture or lack thereof.
From my own exploration into the topic, I will say though that in real-world, on initial confrontation, I present a neutral demeanor, non-agressive (yin from that Point of view) posture and invite the antagonist into a trap.
My belief is that the defender has the advantage. One of the hardest things to train is to wait… then you use their own folly against them in a brutal and efficient manner.
However, in sparring encounters, I use a couple of stances within the ebb and flow, and I have looked for the best ones that allow me to use Pak Mei as opposed to Kickboxing. I have my conclusions, but they really only apply to games. And Sifu kinda asked me to quit playing games…<sigh>
As Sifu says, in a real confrontation, there is no need for the en-garde stance, as the initial clash tells the tale, and there is no need to re-gather.
So, have I restored the integrity of my pai worldwide with my explanation of my own shortcomming? <snicker> Didn’t I see a pic of FT in a “ready” stance on his website…? Where does that come from?
“We give no bridge & what looks to be given is in truth taken” Certainly applies to YKM, as well as PM and SPM, if the level of the player is high enough? The whole shroud of mystery is partly so the other guy has no idea what to expect anyhow!
“The measure of one’s skill is their ability to shift shape” I’ll pay that as well, it addresses the yang and yin issues as well as anything else. Shifting is good, shifting in the right way is better… Forcing the other to shift is perhaps best…
Too bad we can’t play these esoteric games on-line…<grin> It would make the time so much more interesting…
Beyond technique, we are moving into the spiritual attitude towards combat here as well, “shen?”
“Sifu teaches the tiger and leopard, but the essence of Pak Mei comes from the Imortals” Where did I hear that again?
DT,
Are you a fan of Mushashi? Are you familiar with the terms “domination” and “crease”. I have found some interesting parallels between the way of the sword in Japanese culture and our style’s philosophy of engagement.
Yum Cha
Hi,
hahaha yes, en guard or any guard is ok if you have time and both people are squaring up to fight. like put up ur dukes!!
what i was showing in the pics which i have a few of them, are different positions that leave the gates open or closed, high and low , but again this changes and never stagnats!!
I dont believe that the defender has the upper hand as you dont know how good or strong your foe is, so agrression is the key. Even moving backwards i am still using offensive mindset, i dont wait for the guy to move always, and i will attack 1st in most and some cases.
merry xmas to you
FT:D
Re: Yum Cha
Originally posted by fiercest tiger
[B]Hi,
hahaha yes, en guard or any guard is ok if you have time and both people are squaring up to fight. like put up ur dukes!!
what i was showing in the pics which i have a few of them, are different positions that leave the gates open or closed, high and low , but again this changes and never stagnats!!:)[/B]
Certainly, solid material too.
One could even also say there are natural “starting points” for combinations that require some form of “shaping up” before committment, or situations that you find yourself shaped up into that automatically lead into other executions.
I dont believe that the defender has the upper hand as you dont know how good or strong your foe is, so agrression is the key. Even moving backwards i am still using offensive mindset, i dont wait for the guy to move always, and i will attack 1st in most and some cases.
I know that <wink>. Big yang boy. Just wait young fellah…see, I’m too old and fat to chase people around, I just let them come to me. It solved a lot of technical problems…<grin> Agression certainly has its place, but there are many “keys.” Ferocity is the term I like to use.
merry xmas to you
Thank you, right back at ya matey. BTW I got a copy of warriors way and read your articles…It was the best of the magazine…kudos.
FT:D [/B]
Yum Cha
KOOL, the mag isnt bad except for the wingchun dummy that took up half the **** mag. Also i didnt get to have my technique work shop in there, maybe next time. Im doing an iron palm article for next issue, basic conditioning mediations, herbs etc stay tunned!!
Too Fat and too Old, old wise one…remember if your in my space you cope a whollop! hehehe no need to chase just enter my circle.
later
FT;)
Re: TAOBOY
Originally posted by fiercest tiger
[B]Thats why the mindset must be drilled into students and use overkill, as having the defensive mindset wont help you, offensive mindset is what must be taugt.
Also your attack is your defense so straight away soon as someone moved your in and striking.
thats my thoughts
FT:) [/B]
Couldn’t agree more.
The guy the was feeding would have fair sh.t himself if he was feeding someone of our mindset.
A solid defence is one thing, but an aggressive, focussed attack is a must!
Happy holidays everyone!
I dont believe that the defender has the upper hand as you dont know how good or strong your foe is, so agrression is the key. Even moving backwards i am still using offensive mindset, i dont wait for the guy to move always, and i will attack 1st in most and some cases.
I hear that.
Best defense is a better offense.
I found around my Green sash skill that sitting in defense was an easy/easier method to gain the upper hand. I also started to experience this at tournaments as well. I would rush in while the other side-stepped easily enough and snap kicked for an easy POINT! but as usual I turned on a dime and proceeded to pommel this technique into domination. Hmmm..that was even easier! Yeah, sure the fellow got the POINT but upon allowing the melee to play out, I was standing while my oppoenent’s were not or were litterally running away.
Playing in the kwoon is an essential part of learning one’s style. It allows for interpretation of movement, technique and utter boldness! But I agree, too much play can become detrimental to progression and acquiring real intent. A nice blend of both under the watchful eyes of a good teacher is a rare gem.
So, I too attack attack and attack. My style is Bak Hsing CLF - a very simple philosophy to it. Go to where your opponent is so you can direct ALL thereafter.
In my neverending quest of enhancing my skill, I worked on bridging to becoem more effective during the initial interaction. To counter a defensive player is easy enough - be better at your offense by understanding the dynamics of interaction. Here is when the shifting from initial soft to hard to pure movement cab be found. Not just from touch of the arms and hands but from the ground you are engaged, to a personal radious dependent on one’s intent.
Of course..these are my experiences and teachings. Merely one OTHER perspective.
nospam.
…timing
one of the SPM guys said something I liked a few threads back. “you don’t move, I don’t move, you move, I arrive first.”
Lets just make sure we’re clear on this point, waiting for someone else to attack is not necessarily being defensive. The issue is timing. Clarity of mind and purpose. Discipline and focus.
Any enemy is most vulnerable in transition. Thus, you guide them into transition and attack them at their weakest. The question is, can you pass through your transition faster (or more efficiently) than they can…or can you somehow delay them to the same end. How much of the strategy is only applied once hands are crossed, and how much of your strategy is applied before the hands cross?
yummy
Yes, GOOD point! As long as the mindset is there even if you make a yin attack and use all your circles you can win. softness can defeat hardness and vise versa, also look at your 45 angles (NOT just talking about stances here!)
FT;)
YC I don’t know Mushashi or those words. I have only 6 grade education & didn’t go to end & had to drop out to help parents with money stuff so I’m a stupid man & don’t know much reading stuff. Nospam I don’t use the word defend ever & if someone comes to me and says I want to learn to defend myself I say I can’t help them & I don’t teach such stuff. Just for me the defend mind is wrong & I don’t go around looking for fights so if it comes my way I don’t defend I attack & didn’t start it so it’s not my fault. FT you’re giving away good stuff & leading the way so my arguments with the old guys to let the young guys post on forums is going to be easy & I say thanks & good efforts on your part. Yes to 45 angles FT & lets force go away best & it projects force best too & I sometimes work with 55 angle to put some space & room on both sides do you ever do this too? I just showed a couple of the young guys your post FT & they saw it right from start & they read my post & ask if I would tell them if they didn’t see it & I tell them truth no. They asked why then would I tell people I don’t know & they got me there so if people can see it good for them & I’m not doing for others those things I wouldn’t do for my people since their point makes sense to me.