“From the people who brought you Ninja Snaps come Chi Bites!”
Originally posted by Skummer
[B]I saw these comments on the Mullins board a few days ago and tried to reply, but my email address has been banned(?).
[/B]
Skummer, try a different e-mail address. We’ve been havinf difficulty with hotmail, yahoo addresses etc. not being approved.
As for the debate: Biting is a last resort and only if life is on the line. It goes both ways and may not work as a good ground fighter will incapacitate you before you have the opportunity. If it’s there and you don’t have the option you do whatever it takes to live. To the meecer’s defense, I don’t think he meant biting was the grand end-all-be-all to grappling defense, but it could work in a pinch.
Someone who is familiar with the methods and tactics of groundfighting, and on positioning, will have a far greater number of chances to bite and eye gouge than someone who merely knows how to bite and eyegouge. They are not a defense against ground fighting, they are merely weapons that one might use if they knew how to ground fight, and if they don’t, weapons they might get lucky with.
I’m pretty sure there’s not one documented case of ANYONE successfully biting off a gonad in a ground fighting situation. But if they did, in some weird comic book sort of world, they should follow it up with:
[IN BEST MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE VOICE]: Now Bite Out a Chi Bite! Yeaaaaah!
most people wear clothes, chances are if you try to bite someone in a fight, life or death or whatever unless it’s biting them in the hand, neck or facial appendage the biter will probably get a mouth full of fabric and then have their teeth F’d up from the fabric getting wrenched away. Biting someone on the ear seems to only get them mad i.e. holyfield tyson. Biting someone in the nose doesn’t seem practically applicable in any scenario.
That leaves pretty much just the neck and hands (and arms if short sleeved or wife beater). Now since the notion was biting against grapplers and targets have been limited by clothes and since grapplers practice protecting their necks and hands/arms all the time, biting, in conclusion seems impractical.
Impracticable? Probably. If the opportunity presents itself would you try it? If your life was on the line.
I think any martial artist should find some good graound fighters and play around to see what it’s like to play their game. I have and learned enough to know I don’t want to go to the ground (I actually got to where I could go a good 2 or 3 minutes without being forced to tap out, but I had no offense against a good grappler)
Of course there are grappling thechinqes that work in the ring that may be impractibale on the street as well (depending on the clothes worn by you opponent) Techniques the rely on hooking a belt or a “gi choke” come to mind.
Biting, eye guaging, pinching, tickling, licking, whatever, is no different than kicking and punching. You know how to do it and so do I … IT’S HOW YOU DO IT AND CAN YOU PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO DO IT.
If you have no ground game, a good ground fighter is going to tie you up real well, pin your arms, and you may bend your head at your neck a bit and try to bit the one forearm that pinned you but the other arm will begin beating your senseless.
But, if your training is of the, get mounted, reverse it, pin them, and then bite his neck apart, then OK.
It’s just sounding like an emergency tactic. And usually, if the other guy is better than you, he’ll get past your emergency tactic as well … there’s a reason you’re in trouble.
Exactly. And I think that the meecer was saying this in his own tactful way. 
If you read his entire response, I don’t think that is what he was trying to say at all. Basically, he said any ground-fighting is useless in ‘real’ encounters and ground fighting schools are a fad.
Well he was saying that people who only do groundfighting are limiting themselves to one-on-one situations. To that end, I’ll agree with you MK.
I think the name of this thread should be “themeecer techniques- no history arguments”.
In that same thread, there was really only the two people “debating” for the longest time. The fact that no other shaolin do students chimed in should mean that most of us would try something else first. Why werent any of the other responses to ground fighters carried over here?
For the record, there was no bickering or petty arguments on the shaolin do forum before folks from over here started to post there. I have to wonder if the poster “debating” with meecer isnt one of our more tenacious detractors from over here. It is funny how that thread is the one being posted over here.
Lets discuss shaolin do techniques if that is the point of this thread.
Ben
Fire away. What technique do you want to discuss?
let’s run the numbers
My arms are about two and a half feet long and have 360 degrees of movement in two joints (shoulders and wrists) and 180 degrees of movement in a third (elbows.)
My legs are about three feet long, have about 180 degrees of movement in two joints (hips and knees) and about 180 degrees of movement in a third (ankles.)
My neck is about 8 inches long and has a total of about 180 degrees of movement, left and right and up and down.
Let’s assume that my opponent has similar proportions and flexibility.
If he’s using his arms and legs to control me, and I’m trying to bite him, who’s got the advantage in terms of strength, mobility, and reach?
Just having good natured fun, but…
It’s funny watching Judge’s Pen revise meecer’s statements for him.
THEMEECER: I hate blue cheese
POSTER: But you’re eating a blue cheese sandwhich.
JUDGE’S PEN[IN PRESS CONFERENCE FASHION]: What themeecer was saying is that blue cheese, when improperly aged, is not pleasant. It was in the subtext.
POSTER: There’s subtext to I hate blue cheese?
JUDGE’S PEN: Clearly. Next question?
It is correct that this thread has nothing to do with SD other than a few members being on it. However, the lack of disagreement to themeecer’s statements on ground fighting on mullin’s board do not attest to a higher consciousness of its members- it just says there are less people who ground fight there than here. His statements, despite the revisionism going on, have serious flaws, because they don’t relate at all to fighting, but to a couple moves. It’s like a ground fighter saying “I don’t need to learn standup, if they try to fight me stand up, I’ll just rip off their testicles and bite their jugular”. It’s silly. It’s totally ignoring the how and skipping right to the what.
Hey, I’m gonna try.
I don’t have to worry about good kickers. I’ll just remove their pituitary gland and ruin their credit.
That’s fun. Let’s try again:
I don’t have to worry about the Gracies, I’ll just give them Legionnaires disease and drop heavy weights on their hands before committing them to mental wards and causing all of their paperwork to be lost mid IRS audit.
Originally posted by apoweyn
Now, I’ve got a picture in my head of adapting the knifefighting drill where you put lipstick or chalk on a practice knife to see where you cut the guy. Except in this case, you actually use the lipstick “normally” and see where you could’ve bitten the guy.
That’s actually a cool idea. I just have to find the right shade for myself, something that brings out my eyes.
KC .. you’re dealing with an attorney there, what do you expect. 
He gets paid to argue.
Originally posted by themeecer
That’s actually a cool idea. I just have to find the right shade for myself, something that brings out my eyes.
Better yet if it brings out their eyes. pluck
KC: Thanks for the laugh. Call me the SD spokesperson.
Bite an artery out. They will let go. If a ball sack presents itself bite that off as well. (Just gargle a gallon of mouthwash afterwards) Any of the pressure point areas can be bit out as well.
I don’t see how you could possibly BITE out someone’s ball sack, unless they’re naked, lying down in front of you uncouncious GRABBING can be done(read news stories about women killing abusive husbands/boyfriends this way), but against an experienced grappler… good luck getting yourself in a position to use this. It’s this kind of attitude that got that San Soo’s(not San Shou) guys arm broken against John Marsh(who emerged from the fight 100% unharmed). These kind of dirty tricks are good to keep in mind, but generally aren’t going to work against skilled grapplers. Not to mention, these things are pretty un-neccesary to train and impossible to train with in a safe situation. The most you can do is keep this stuff in mind. I did have a friend who’s school would allow biting in their sparring… safe to say, they’re all still alive and well
I guarantee you that I would get my bite in before this happened and/or have blinded the guy. But even if I couldn’t … I am still left with over 9 weapons to use, after my arm has been broken.
9 other weapons… Yup. You got your other hand, other elbow, shoulders, head, hips, knees, feet… though, these really don’t seem to tie into the original discussion.
My advice was sound and is the same advice my teacher gives. So in calling me a fool for my comments you were in a way saying the same about him. This grappeling fad is one of the most useless bunch of garabage I have seen in the MA community. That stuff is totally useless in a fight with more than 1 attacker. It is useless in situations where you don’t have the floor space to waller around in. About the only place it is effective is in a UFC fighting ring. Because a) You have 1 attacker, b) You have a big open area to lay around and grope each other (No cars in the way nor tables or other people) and c) biting and eye gouges are not allowed.
Hmm… lets see… one group uses techniques that work and can be tested daily… the other person advocates using techniques that can’t be tested safely and has never used live before… I wonder who knows more about fighting?
Have I actually bit out a pressure point? No I have not.
Then you have no place telling someone this is a valid defense against groundfighting. As a teen, I got in a fight taking my oponent to the ground. His mouth and arms never got anywhere near any exposed arteries or my face to use any of the techniques you mentioned. I had 0 training in ground fighting at the time too.
I think the name of this thread should be “themeecer techniques- no history arguments”.
Agreed, though if meecer is telling the truth, his idiotic views are being backed up by a fairly high ranking Shaolin-Do instructor… so if I were you guys, I’d be a little worried
Originally posted by Brad
Agreed, though if meecer is telling the truth, his idiotic views are being backed up by a fairly high ranking Shaolin-Do instructor… so if I were you guys, I’d be a little worried
Watch it there Brad. You can argue, rib, insult me if you like and it makes you feel like a bigger man, but that comment is down a road that needn’t be taken.
Best post by KC ever…lol
I’m sure in 900 forms, you’ll find just about any technique that is in any asian art… Just a thought.