[QUOTE=Hendrik;1169018]It is in this forum, Wayne of the snake crane WCK lineage share his ancestor 's 1870 writing copy cover page. Anyone can get access .
Snake crane is a sister lineage of yks. And they do three sets.[/QUOTE]
I know about Wayne Hendrik and what he has claimed with regards to his Snake Crane Wing Chun, but what I am asking for is actual evidence not someones personal research because we all have our own, y’know?
And considering what others have said about the subtitles being incorrect, and in effect laying claims about Ip Man that were not mentioned really does nothing to inspire confidence in anything this guy said then or now. Not for me anyway, but I will check it our for myself now I am home…
[QUOTE=MOSHE;1169050]the daughter of Sum Nun was living in my city in France.
her husband from cambodia, when living in china learned WC from his father in law[/QUOTE]
Just to offer another viewpoint here, My Sifu has plenty of daughters who have all had boyfriends and a husband who once took part and learnt Wing Chun for a while, only because of the connection.
He taught them basics but it all came to nothing. It simply doesn’t work that way. He also taught all his daughters for yrears and years and it still means nothing because ultimately they too are not Martial Artists. They simply couldn’t take it.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1169058]Maybe so, especially when I’m at work!
I know about Wayne Hendrik and what he has claimed with regards to his Snake Crane Wing Chun, but what I am asking for is actual evidence not someones personal research because we all have our own, y’know?
And considering what others have said about the subtitles being incorrect, and in effect laying claims about Ip Man that were not mentioned really does nothing to inspire confidence in anything this guy said then or now. Not for me anyway, but I will check it our for myself now I am home…[/QUOTE]
Wayne, is from the Lo family. Lo is since 1860. Lo has preserve the book written in 1870 for past four generation as it is. They have released the cover page of that book.
To be honest, when these people says they are researching. They are just beings humble. They have inherit the solid teaching but just to give face to today’s his story making people to not lost face.
As I said before, just look at the first two section of the slt one does it will have enough signature to tell what it is .
People have been making WC work for them where it counts ( in fights) for a very long time WITHOUT any “book” or “secrets” but with hard work and doing something that is sorely lacking in a few posters here: FIGHTING.
Some people need to stop standing on the shoulders of those that came before them, they need to stop nutriding and get into action.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1169059]Just to offer another viewpoint here, My Sifu has plenty of daughters who have all had boyfriends and a husband who once took part and learnt Wing Chun for a while, only because of the connection.
He taught them basics but it all came to nothing. It simply doesn’t work that way. He also taught all his daughters for yrears and years and it still means nothing because ultimately they too are not Martial Artists. They simply couldn’t take it.
Bloodline is a convenience. That’s all.[/QUOTE]
I know that and I will not add names but in this case I have every thing in hands to certify what I wrote, I didn’t just knew them
I couldn’t give a monkeys who taught who and who was whose favourite student, longest serving washer woman or anything else. What I’ve been taught works (for me, my sifu and for several of my kung fu brothers) and that’s all that matters. If folks from other alledged lineages can show me different stuff that helps make my Wing Chun better whether its training methods, techniques, ways of moving, internal stuff or philosophy I’m all ears (and I can proudly say that I’ve incorporated drills that have been posted by several posters) but all I ever see in clips like this is either old guys in tacky shops making grand claims about lineage or clips of people doing stuff that looks quite frankly crap (and I don’t mean it doesn’t look pretty I mean it looks like it would get you hurt):p. If Ip Man only learnt a bit of the system, only trained for a tiny period of time and was an opium addict as well then fair play to him because what he passed on to his students was pretty good.
[QUOTE=MOSHE;1169097]I know that and I will not add names but is this case I have every thing in hands to certify what I wrote, I didn’t just knew them[/QUOTE]
It’s fine MOSHE I’m not asking for you to reveal the who’s who of Sum Nung WCK, I was just offering my own experience of ‘blood’ family teaching and it’s pitfalls. I think it’s great that some older lineages have kept books from their origins, but I also guess this is the big question: What origins exactly?? Ip Ching has Leung Jans original book too, but do you think it matters when he can not understand Medicinal poetry? Perhaps he can, but I see no evidence of this being taught to anyone outside HK.
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1169097]I couldn’t give a monkeys who taught who and who was whose favourite student, longest serving washer woman or anything else.[/QUOTE]
This is the right attitude to have IMHHO. Don’t get me wrong, I have a lassive respecys for the fforts of our Wing Chun ancestors, but for the present time, just do what you can do yourself and don’t fall into the ‘he said she said’ crap!
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1169097]… but all I ever see in clips like this is either old guys in tacky shops making grand claims about lineage or clips of people doing stuff that looks quite frankly crap (and I don’t mean it doesn’t look pretty I mean it looks like it would get you hurt).[/QUOTE]
I understand the frustration believe me, but I do appreciate the work that certain people have put into researching our system. I only wish they could also be a little more responsible for the stories that they promote, because as I think we all agree, we can do without more stories.
[QUOTE=imperialtaichi;1169275]History, traditions, politics are all parts of WC, should be recorded in books for future reference.
You don’t win fights with future reference.[/QUOTE]
I see your angle, but if I was only ever concerned with ‘winning fights’ my Sifu would have never taught me what he did. It’s just his way, and it was the way of his Sifu and Ip Man before him (or so I heard lol!)
FWIW I think books on Wing Chun should really become a thing of the past. We live in a modern age, and I think our way forward is to openly share our knowledge through film. So people can actually SEE what you are talking about!
And here-in lay another little secret…
Some people simply do not want to be seen maybe because they’re just too awesome!!
There’s no secrets in WC, only confusion on how to best explain what is literally universal. There’s never been “secrets” except a desire not to teach foreigners. But since that’s a thing of the past, really it just comes down to a lack of understanding simplicity in fighting and body unity in movement. A physical therapist could figure out a fighting system very similar to WC if they really wanted to…
FWIW I think books on Wing Chun should really become a thing of the past. We live in a modern age, and I think our way forward is to openly share our knowledge through film. So people can actually SEE what you are talking about!
I disagree with you here, books compliment video footage IMO
And here-in lay another little secret…
Some people simply do not want to be seen maybe because they’re just too awesome!
[QUOTE=WC1277;1169348]There’s no secrets in WC, only confusion on how to best explain what is literally universal. There’s never been “secrets” except a desire not to teach foreigners. But since that’s a thing of the past…[/QUOTE]
You may be interested to know that it really isn’t a ‘thing of the past’. Some of the older generations still only teach Chinese and family, so with the greatest respect you are wrong to think it’s an open playing field.
Yes, there have been many changes in recent times, but as a living example my Sifu started his learning in 1965, opened his first ‘club’ in 1978 but only taught with no restriction to a small group of guys from 1995. That’s 30 years of not teaching how he wanted to. 30 years of teaching without his native language. 30 years of trying to teach with limited English!
[QUOTE=WC1277;1169348]A physical therapist could figure out a fighting system very similar to WC if they really wanted to…[/QUOTE]
That’s a bit of a stretch, but I can see what you mean. If all the original chinese terms were erased and we all had a universal English way of teaching using physio-lingo that might be a start. But fme this has already been done in the UK, and elsewhere, over and over and over again but we still face the same issues as before. Stagnation in learning has to be unlocked through correct guidance, and the language already exists for this to be possible. It’s Chinese We just need a unified translation!!
[QUOTE=GlennR;1169352]I disagree with you here, books compliment video footage IMO[/QUOTE]
I agree to a point.
I see and read many many many peoples views and ideas about what Wing Chun is all about. Not just here in the forums but through book format too. But I tend not to see too many decent reflections of books on video/DVD.
One of my Sifus students wrote a song entitled “Talk Wing Chun, Walk Wing Chun” which says alot about this subject.
Lots of words that describe Wing Chun perfectly out there, but not enough videos that live up to the expectation IMHO.
[QUOTE=WC1277;1169348]There’s no secrets in WC, only confusion on how to best explain what is literally universal. There’s never been “secrets” except a desire not to teach foreigners. But since that’s a thing of the past, really it just comes down to a lack of understanding simplicity in fighting and body unity in movement. A physical therapist could figure out a fighting system very similar to WC if they really wanted to…[/QUOTE]
Yes there are lots of purposely untold key points.
No. Get the best physical therapist you know in the west and see how far he could decode siu Lin tau.
[QUOTE=WC1277;1169348]There’s no secrets in WC, only confusion on how to best explain what is literally universal. There’s never been “secrets” except a desire not to teach foreigners. But since that’s a thing of the past, really it just comes down to a lack of understanding simplicity in fighting and body unity in movement. A physical therapist could figure out a fighting system very similar to WC if they really wanted to…[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, you need to be a fighter to “figure” out a fighting system.
Ooops, I just gave away the secret ! runs and hides from WC ninjas
maybe because they’re just too awesome!!
We just need a unified translation!!