[QUOTE=sihing;734254]Actually surprise is not a skill, it just is what it is, otherwise referred to as the “unknown”. [/QUOTE]
When I saw your comment that “Surprise works 100 times out of 100.” I thought that if something is 100 successful, we should use it. 
Your response that “surprise is not a skill” reminded me of the classic scenes in the Pink Panther movies where Kato would ambush the Inspector to test his ability to react to sneak attacks… 
[QUOTE=Matrix;734877]When I saw your comment that “Surprise works 100 times out of 100.” I thought that if something is 100% successful, we should use it.
Your response that “surprise is not a skill” reminded me of the classic scenes in the Pink Panther movies where Kato would ambush the Inspector to test his ability to react to sneak attacks… :D[/QUOTE]
That’s exactly the effect. Surprise works all the time. It’s the one that you didn’t see that knocks you out, so the one not seen is the surprise. That is not to always mean that the fight is over because you have surprised them with a application of an technique, but when you hit someone or take them down that in itself is success, that can lead to victory.
“Well, I guess that’s another dimension for training, beyond the physical attributes and skills.” IMO, developing the individual physical skills is the basics only. In fighting, ultimatley IMO you have to master timing, distance control and perception (the ability to read your opponents movements visually). Your body should react appropiately if you can develop these things to a high level. If I see you throwing a haymaker and I have the physical abilities already within me, I can stop hit you easy. No need to block or recover. Bruce is the prime example of this.
gotta run…
James
[QUOTE=sihing;734884]IMO, developing the individual physical skills is the basics only. In fighting, ultimatley IMO you have to master timing, distance control and perception (the ability to read your opponents movements visually). Your body should react appropiately if you can develop these things to a high level. If I see you throwing a haymaker and I have the physical abilities already within me, I can stop hit you easy. No need to block or recover.[/QUOTE]
What I’m trying to say is that emotions can short-circuit your physical skills that have been trained in a non-threatening environment. Shallow breathing, high adrenaline and stress can kill relaxation and rob you of mobility, control and power that you need.
[QUOTE=Matrix;734976]What I’m trying to say is that emotions can short-circuit your physical skills that have been trained in a non-threatening environment. Shallow breathing, high adrenaline and stress can kill relaxation and rob you of mobility, control and power that you need.[/QUOTE]
That’s why the intensity and realism of the training has to always increase. And also putting yourself out there in strange environments, sparring and exposing yourself to different fighters and styles helps.
Always remember that the stress and adrenaline dump is not ONLY effecting you, but your opponent too. To many times we only concern ourselves with what is happening to us, but really it is happening to the other guy as well. So it makes sense to believe that the one with the better training and exposure to combat would come out on top in most cases. Of course nothing is guaranteed in combat, you just have to do the best you can.
James
[QUOTE=Matrix;734976]What I’m trying to say is that emotions can short-circuit your physical skills that have been trained in a non-threatening environment. Shallow breathing, high adrenaline and stress can kill relaxation and rob you of mobility, control and power that you need.[/QUOTE]
That’s why the intensity and realism of the training has to always increase. And also putting yourself out there in strange environments, sparring and exposing yourself to different fighters and styles helps.
Always remember that the stress and adrenaline dump is not ONLY effecting you, but your opponent too. To many times we only concern ourselves with what is happening to us, but really it is happening to the other guy as well. So it makes sense to believe that the one with the better training and exposure to combat would come out on top in most cases. Of course nothing is guaranteed in combat, you just have to do the best you can, dealing with it as it comes.
James
[QUOTE=sihing;735076]Always remember that the stress and adrenaline dump is not ONLY effecting you, but your opponent too. To many times we only concern ourselves with what is happening to us, but really it is happening to the other guy as well. So it makes sense to believe that the one with the better training and exposure to combat would come out on top in most cases. [/QUOTE]James,
From my point of view, whether the opponent is stressed emotionally or not is inconscequential. I cannot count on that being the case. Why would I waste my time playing mind games with myself ?
I only concern myself with what is happening to me, because that is all I can control. The opponent will do or not do whatever he decides to do. I want to stay within myself and bring the situation to a rapid conclusion.
Specific training for surprise…
I like the POV on surprise and it brings to mind some things ive tried to prepare me for surprise attacks.
(being smacked in the head when your not looking is popular down the main drag of town where i live)
Ive been shown different ways of training and dealing with the surprise element, from my buddy who is a Personal Protection Officer.
Body guards for the most part when dealing with threats get taken by surprise but thats the crux of the job, being able to deal with surprise H2H attacks.
There are several ways you can train to improve your chances, here’s one senario ive done with friends -
Get a partner to attack you with one action from a angle outside your eye line, be it a kick or a punch. Now the key to realism is you are ONLY allowed to retaliate AFTER the action has landed.
Of course your partner has to appreciate this is just training and you dont want to injure yourself so hitting with 100 isnt advised (my partners are all bigger and stonger) but a forceful stunning power is recommended for realsim and to prepare ones body and mind.
After you feel comfortable with the single action senario, get your partner to give two actions, although you only have to wait for ONE to land before you can act.
once youve got used to the surprise attack senario you can even add sparring after the initial blows doing three min rounds etc - just use your mind…
Does anyone else do specific trainnig drills for surprise attacks ?
If so, how or what do you do ?
[QUOTE=Liddel;735633]
Does anyone else do specific trainnig drills for surprise attacks ?
If so, how or what do you do ?[/QUOTE]
The concept we train is “shadow” vs. “shape”. “Shadow” training would involve covering gates and sweeping space based upon NOT being able to see the attack coming. “Shape” would involve targeting what you can see.
from an earlier post:
First he starts off and bad mouths Moy Yat and Lee Moy Shan both more than once, and very disgracefully at that. Using words like ‘greedy’, refering to one as a con man, calling them lyers, and getting even more personal: " At that time Lee was embroiled in another business, an affair, a crumbling marriage, and other things"
This is slanderous IMO. An affair? Is there proof?
from me:
I not sure where the slander is. I too was conned by Lee Moy Shan (Douglas lee) into joining his special students association for $1,000.00
Lee had a school on 23 st NYC. I joined the school when Vinny Thomas was studying the second form. I will say that Vinny was a real gentleman at all times.
He never popped you on the nose during chi sau to prove he was the top dog.
At that I Lee has just gotton married to a chinese girl. I’am sure she was still a student at Baruch college, but in any case she was only 20 year old or so.
Later Lee did get a divorce and married a white women. You will have to ask his ex-wife if Lee was cheating during his marriage.
Lee was engaged in other endevors. At that time he was trying to open a food take out place. He had a mobile cart on the street in which he sold egg rolls.
He was also trying to get a acupunture license via self study.
so bascially for my $1,000 Lee taught me the Three Stooges eye poke.
All the other times he was not at the school.
Are there any other Lee special students out there ?
“The Three Stooges eye poke”…
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
My God…you’ve just made my day.
(Not that I ever had anything against Douglas Lee, mind you…but that was laugh-out-loud funny)…:rolleyes: 
Lee Moy Shan
Hi Lui828- I am an old LMS student-Who are you exactly,your real name please maybe I know you-I came to the school right after the move to Chambers street upstairs,so I know pretty much most or all of the oldtimers-
You too??!!
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;735867]“The Three Stooges eye poke”…
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
My God…you’ve just made my day.
(Not that I ever had anything against Douglas Lee, mind you…but that was laugh-out-loud funny)…:rolleyes: :)[/QUOTE]
You know the Three Stooges eye poke too ??? How much did you pay to learn it. ?
Lee had his own special students scam at the same time Moy Yat run his.
Lee told me he had a limit of 10(?) or so openings. I had to act right away else I could not join. How many of Lee’s special students are still out there ?
We are old buddies
Hi Dr.
Yes you know me although we never met. we exchanged a lot of w/c and martial arts media
I did w.c and then did judo.
I will send you an email
What is LMS doing these days ?
Hi Lui828
Cool-I look forward to it-
LMS is living in China now-Vinny Thomas is running the school
Steve Goericke is way out on Long Island, Darryl Jordan is in Florida,Dan Leahy in Vermont,Robert Chu in California,Paul Fields I am not sure,Dave Robinson in Boston last I heard and not sure about Richard Louie