http://monolith.projectgamma.com/~rage/fights/Fighting_Mad_Part_1.wmv
just in case you forgot , what your training for 
http://monolith.projectgamma.com/~rage/fights/Fighting_Mad__part_2.wmv
they human animal such a beautiful thing
keep practicing your tan sau people
just a little more home work for ya 
Itâs truly poetry in motion.
put yourself in the middle of that chaotic mess and ask yourself what training methods will get you out alive
just wondering how honest people will answer 
Probably all those people got out alive and none probably knew anything.
I think Wing Chun can prepare you for those situations and so can any other martial art. Along with those arts come conditioning, fighting experience and proper fighting frame of mind.
In order:
- fighting mentality
- your conditioning, size and speed
- your experience
- your artâs techniques
Ray
Originally posted by YongChun
[B]Probably all those people got out alive and none probably knew anything.
I think Wing Chun can prepare you for those situations and so can any other martial art. Along with those arts come conditioning, fighting experience and proper fighting frame of mind.
In order:
- fighting mentality
- your conditioning, size and speed
- your experience
- your artâs techniques
Ray [/B]
so one would have to ask themselves if they are covering those excellent points
also does your approach
have mass attack , weapons , ground , clinch there was alot of clinch going on , stress overload etc
to add to your list awareness , and luck the luck factor is big
does you wing /chisau cover these areaâs
how do you gain experience [ simualtion ] in your training
or are you just hopeing things will magically work for you
hmmmmmmm
i wonder
to scarey better to talk about side steps and tan saus :eek:
http://members.cox.net/kobebryant/martial%20arts%20ufc_knockout.asf
now lets add in
- fighting mentality
- your conditioning, size and speed
- your experience
- your artâs techniques
what you got hmmm
still got alot of footwork , clinch , ground , hitting with hand foot knee elbow head
**** were is the perfect tan sau everybody argues about
were the knees in or out
hmm and what was the history or lineage
was the punch from the red boat or shaolin gee i wonder :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
not much different then the untrained street fight
did you see the awsome root and sun / pheonix fist
:rolleyes:
what did you see
fights from around the world different ages people and so on
when the human factor kicks in it all looks alike
punches , kicks , clinch , elbows , knees, head butts , etcâŚ
just a simple reality check
back to lineage and history talks
http://www.hkstars.net/thaiboxmagazine/Ramon_Dekker.wmv
next time you feel like talking about what ifâs on thai round kicks
put yourself in this blender
this is what you get when attributes evolve a thai dude with boxing hands and modern training methods
hope chi sau gets you ready for this ha ha
yep lets keep talking about the 50/50 60/40/ 70/30 wieght on our feet and if TWC came from YIP or if WSL was only good because he boxed
man got to love my wing chun folks
ok iâm done
back to the importance of doing forms and cultivating chi:confused:
Those are just brawlers with no skill. A real kung fu master would have no trouble stopping any of them.:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Knifefighter
Those are just brawlers with no skill. A real kung fu master would have no trouble stopping any of them.:rolleyes:
Gary Lam, William Cheung and Emin Boztepe must be as close to a Kung Fu master as is possible. So if they cannot stop these guys then who can?
Ray
Originally posted by Ernie
[B]http://www.hkstars.net/thaiboxmagazine/Ramon_Dekker.wmv
this is what you get when attributes evolve a thai dude with boxing hands and modern training methods
[/B]
If the goal is to beat Thai boxers or Western boxers then donât waste your time with Wing Chun because Wing Chun has forms and Chi sau and theories. You donât need those for that. If my goal was to beat the Thais then I would do what Dekker did. It worked for him. He didnât study Wing Chun.
Ray
Originally posted by YongChun
[B]If the goal is to beat Thai boxers or Western boxers then donât waste your time with Wing Chun because Wing Chun has forms and Chi sau and theories. You donât need those for that. If my goal was to beat the Thais then I would do what Dekker did. It worked for him. He didnât study Wing Chun.
Ray [/B]
Not sure if your trying to be sarcastic or not Ray, but I donât agree with your statement. Can a Wing Chun guy beat a Muay Thai guy, yes. Can a Muay Thai guy beat a Wing Chun guy, yes. I donât think we are talking about specific people against one another of different styles. On another forum Iâm involved with a thread about how good Muay Thai is as a fighting/self defense system. Most all the people are posting about how awesome MT is and showing clips of great fighters using MT as their system. I went on there and told them that IMO WC is superior for a variety of reasons, and they told that Vanderlai Salva was the best fighter in the world and he uses MT so it must be the best, lol. So I found some clips of him and yes he is impressive, but heâs a natural fighter, likes to fight and recieve/dish out punishment. So I told them that IMO if he learned and committed himself to serious WC training he would double his effectivness and most of them laughed at that statement and the others I made too. Not that it matters much to me what anyone thinks.
All systems have effectiveness otherwise they would not be around today, but IMO some are more effective than other and WC is definetly near the top of that list if not at the top.
But I will add that at some point the individual does have something to say about how well they execute the art will determine how effective it is in application. You can have fastest car in the world but if you do not know how to drive it you wonât get anywhere fast. Same thing in WC, at a certain point, and that point is when you are in the position of competiting with the top people in the world whether in a sporting event or on the street. It is then that their personal individual attributes will contribute heavily to the outcome of a confrontation or fight.
James
I think Wing Chun can do the job too but people spend so much time admiring the training methods of Thai boxers, mixed martial artists, and BJJ while criticizing the things that most Wing Chun clubs do so I wonder why those people bother with Wing Chun? I canât really see that it will give them any big advantage in ring fighting or MMA competition. That remains to be proven against the professionals. At a lower level, lots of things will work if there is adequate training, conditioning, sparring etc. Street fighting and ring fighting are different but they do have things in common.
are you kidding?most of you guys on here,against a dumb fool,would wipe the deck with him!you DO wing chun!!
Russ
Ernie sez:
what did you see
((Didnt bother to look. Have seen many things in real life and can visualize others))
fights from around the world different ages people and so on
((Sure-been in different places in the world))
when the human factor kicks in it all looks alike
punches , kicks , clinch , elbows , knees, head butts , etcâŚ
((Looks- but different people bring different developments to their encounters))
just a simple reality check
((You must have talking to some kiddies in mind))
back to lineage and history talks
((not my favorites and several other things similarly so.
Good tan saos are for development.Wing chun provides a great development path. Other systems have their own development paths.Applications involve adaptations⌠good fighters adapt.
What you can do with the adaptations- is upto the individual But if you dont have a devlopment path- growth stops on the long run and there is nothing to pass on but your own not necessarily or exactly duplicable experience,))
Ernie wrote: put yourself in the middle of that chaotic mess and ask yourself what training methods will get you out alive
**Excellent question. And I suggest that one just not do the âthought experimentâ, but actually put yourself in that âchaotic messâ and see how you do. IME those that do will find that a necessary part of their training for becoming better at dealing with that âchaotic messâ is to regularly face that âchaotic mess.â
YongChun wrote: Gary Lam, William Cheung and Emin Boztepe must be as close to a Kung Fu master as is possible. So if they cannot stop these guys then who can?
**You are always looking to others instead of yourself. It is very simple: you get what you train for. If a person doesnât train to be a fighter, they wonât be a fighter. If you want to want to be able to beat world-class fighters, you need to train like a world-class fighter.
If the goal is to beat Thai boxers or Western boxers then donât waste your time with Wing Chun because Wing Chun has forms and Chi sau and theories. You donât need those for that.
**Every fighting method has forms (maybe not linked sets, but âformsâ of techniques, etc.), drills, and theory. The level of skill anyone obtains depends on their innate talent and how they train.
sihing wrote: All systems have effectiveness otherwise they would not be around today, but IMO some are more effective than other and WC is definetly near the top of that list if not at the top.
**Stop with the nonsense! Are you just repeating this mantra to make yourself feel better? Where is the evidence? This is like a bunch of fat folks all talking about how their weight-loss progam is superior! WCK is no better or no worse than many other fighting methods. Accept that and move on. The important question is whether or not your WCK training is producing results for you.
But I will add that at some point the individual does have something to say about how well they execute the art will determine how effective it is in application.
**The method and individual development go hand-in-hand into the âmixâ that determines their personal level of effectiveness (skill). How I like to put it is that quality of âtechniqueâ magnifies (and if poor technique, the factor is a negative number!) the quality of oneâs individual development level (their âattributesâ) and that product is performance level.
Regards,
Terence
Vajramusti
((Didnt bother to look. ))
nuff said :rolleyes:
((You must have talking to some kiddies in mind))
nope only those that seem to have lost track of what will stomp them
mosly stubborn grown upâs with oppinions on things they donât bother to see or do
((Applications involve adaptations⌠good fighters adapt.}}
agreed so how are you training your people and yourself to adapt to the pressure on the clips , emotion , physical ?
not picking on you joy , just see people talking in circles with the same old catch phrase â well here are a few examples of real situations â now we have a common goal
is our training preparing us as best it can [ in the street luck is a factor ] to deal with the physical and emotional stress ?
if you say your version of chi sau does then by all means break it down , if you feel comfortable just picking any average person you train and tossing them in a mass attack sitiation and think there skills are enough to get them out , then awesome
if not then ?
this question is general to everyone
what is your goal ?
self preservation or self perfection or both
are you becoming masters of the [training system] or are you learning to become adaptive in application
there is a huge difference
one has a perfect tan sau in drill envoiroments
the other can apply the concept when needed [ and can recognize when itâs needed not just force it ] in a dirty enviroment
there is no right or wrong here just a small reality check
back to sinking you chi and finding your chakra you know the devil is in the details
Ernie wrote: put yourself in the middle of that chaotic mess and ask yourself what training methods will get you out alive
I ask a different question.
how far/much one allowed oneself to do the damage.
Originally posted by yellowpikachu
[B]Ernie wrote: put yourself in the middle of that chaotic mess and ask yourself what training methods will get you out alive
I ask a different question.
how far/much one allowed oneself to do the damage. [/B]
that would be under the ancient scroll saying
you touch me you die
hey keep your tree hugging gushy yodikudo first charka stuff on your threads
this one is meat and potato rare good old fashion passionate as whooping , shoe job
style
but you are more then welcome to contribute on the violent level that this thread is built on
Ernie,
GRRRR now I feel tense.
Looking at the clips reminded me of the importance of the following areas of training.
-
Conditionning, a lot of fights last more than 3 seconds. If you havent trained for a longer fight and you end up in one youâre focked.
-
Basics of a ground game. A lot of those fights would have been very different if the person underneath knew how to shrimp, put someone in a guard, reverse a mount, use a mount properly etc. Weâre not talking Royce Gracie or anything, maybe 20-30 hrs of no-gi grappling with a decent coach.
-
Chain punching/Straight blast. How many times do you see these guys punching as fast as they can with one wasted hand on a jacket/t-shirt neck. I dont care how many shots you can get in with one hand I can get in more with two.
-
Clinch. We saw very little use of good knees/elbows/headbutts despite plenty of opportunity. Very brutal weapons, you should learn to use them.
-
Simple escapes. You should be able to exit a headlock etc quickly and easily.