Actually, Emin Botempze’s quite visably non-Asian… But, yeah, in the Wing Chun world, most masters and heads of the various lineages are asian. I don’t think it’s really racism though, as WC’s really only been seen here for about two generations (even less for some lineages), so there’s really not enough time to start seeing that many high-ranking practicioners, IMHO.
Likewise, you could say the same thing about western martial arts. When’s the last time you saw a heavy-weight champion boxer who was a Gypsy or _______ (fill in ethnicity of choice here). How many Eskimos are master instructors of bata (Irish Stickfighting)?
Guys, I don’t know what’s more annoying to me…the racism (which i dispise anyway) or the sexism. I don’t know how many times i have heard “You’re a girl, what do you think you could do to me?” or “Aren’t you afraid you are going to BREAK A NAIL?” That’s the MOST annoying! But, I do agree…people always want to think what they are doing is the best. And in Kung Fu’s case, it is…so it’s neither here nor there! Just joking. There are still a lot of people that don’t feel other races should be learning the arts!
I hear you Chicka, but lets let these ignorant poor minded people (no one in particular) have their speculation of things and we will laugh at them anyway;)
Originally posted by dezhen2001
[
us UK guys have to stick together (though few in number we make up by sheer Brilliance ) [/B]
Emin Boztepe is asian. He’s Turkish, they once bordered China and were a nomadic people before settling down in Anatolia, or modern day Turkey.
There are lots of non asian Sifus who kick ass. Besides, Chinese people even discriminate between regions and ethnicities. They aren’t gonna pass more onto some kid whose Cambodian or Japanese anymore that an Englishmen.
SIfus are human, they play favorites I think. If you are smart or somehow endearing, you get better teaching, whether a man’s own country men endear him more is anyone’s guess.
Stacey:
You’re right. Very few people seem to realize that Asia actually extends all the way to the Mediterranean and includes Israel, all the rest of the Middle East, and half of Turkey (which is considered a Eurasian country).
Back to the idea of whether Japanese are more racist…I dunno, are we? I’m Japanese and don’t find I’m anymore racist than anyone else. I try to view all people as individuals and judge them as such, but like everyone else I’m not perfect either. I’ve witnessed or encountered extremely racist Chinese, Mexicans, blacks, whites, Middle Easterners, Vietnamese, Filipinos, Koreans,and yes, other Japanese, too. Every race has its *____*s Also met outstanding people from each race. Remember, if you condemn a whole race because of some individuals or because of your own ignorant, warped perception, you’re condemning potential lifelong friends you have never met yet. If you were lying in a gutter, beaten and helpless in any country, chances are most people would ignore you…some would take advantage and rob you or worse…but there are also people there who would help you at risk to themselves, too. Few perhaps, but they do exist.
As to why are most heads of martial arts organizations Asians…is that really racist? Look at most international organizations worldwide…most are headed by whites. Is that racist? Perhaps, or maybe it’s who happens to be qualified for the position. There are also plenty of types of organizations headed mostly by blacks, is that racist? Since Asian martial arts originated in Asia, it makes sense many (not nearly all) MA org’s are headed by Asians. I mean, come on. Do you really think it’s racist that an organization based in Japan, such as Japan Karate Association is headed by Japanese? Same goes for Chinese, Korean, etc., org’s. Why not ask why most basketball coaches seem to be middle-aged Caucasian men?
Jim
Originally posted by Stacey
[B]Emin Boztepe is asian. He’s Turkish, they once bordered China and were a nomadic people before settling down in Anatolia, or modern day Turkey.
There are lots of non asian Sifus who kick ass. Besides, Chinese people even discriminate between regions and ethnicities. They aren’t gonna pass more onto some kid whose Cambodian or Japanese anymore that an Englishmen.
SIfus are human, they play favorites I think. If you are smart or somehow endearing, you get better teaching, whether a man’s own country men endear him more is anyone’s guess. [/B]
Okay, I know that Turkey is part of asia minor and hence, part of Asia. However, I thought Emin was also born in Germany?
Anyhow, it is my understanding that even though Turkey may be geographically connected to Asia, its history and culture have been more linked to the Middle East and the countries surrounding the Mediteranian Sea. Hence, the Ottoman Empire, Roman conquest of Turkey, the lost city of Troy, etc…
Either way, it’s a moot point. We both know that race and ethnicity has no bearing on a person’s martial skill or other abilities. My orginial point was that while we can say that the CMAs are racist, so do many of our sports and martial arts when you stop and look at them.
I think that the only way you can spot a decrease or increase in racism is to examine the matter over a course of several generations. Context is everything in this case, methinks.
I agree with you Jimbo. I’ve lived here for nearly three years and I don’t think the Japanese are any more racist than any other peoples. And even though the Japanese seem extremely ignorant about most ‘gaijin no koto’ (and since we’re on sweeping generalisations, unfortunately, most of them seem pretty ignorant of their own traditional culture nowadays too) they also seem rather more keen to learn than most people.
The English are pretty bigotted about some things, but we’re also pretty bigotted against bigots! Unfortunately, most ignorant English people still think they know everything, and refuse to educate themselves… ahem:o , sorry!! Unfortunately, too, I’ve often encountered the old training in the park when some ****er comes and offers to fight me cos I obviously ‘know karate’!:rolleyes:
But I’m with you two DZ and Scotty, we’ve got to stick together, and since this is a thread about racism, NOT because everyone else is inferior, but because we’re the best!!! …
Oh, and I apologise to you both about my Americanisms: my girlfriend is Canadian… I’m trying to teach her proper English innit!
Sorry, AndyM, just checked my relevance to the thread again, and, surprise surprise, I’m talking bollocks!
I don’t find the Japanese here are sniffy of any other styles. At one point, I’ve trained in a situation like that that Red Fist describes (in fact, I’ve trained in his dojo too, but not with him and not his arts!) where there are up to 15 or so styles all training in the same (very very big) sports hall (have you been to Shinjuku Sports Centre, Takadanobaba, Red Fists?).
It’s great! OK, so everyone is kinda like “so wtf are those wushu ballet ponces doing”, and “look at that shotokan nonsense”, and “why are those bjjers snifing each others’ crotches again?” at first, but then we’re all like: “cool, did you see that flying double-back-herbert?!”, then we’ll go up and chat to each others’ sifu/sensei and check out a few things, hands on.
I did find in UK that many of the Japanese stylists are a bit elitist. The kungfu boys just get on with it!
If you say Japanese are racists, you are racist yourself. Don’t generalise!
I am Japanese and doing a Chinese martial art along with judo and formerly did Okinawan Gojyu-Ryu karate. To be honest, I haven’t experienced or bumped into any bad conflicts between Chinese and Japanese martial arts. We respect that karate was originated in China then brought to Japan and that’s why karate was long time ago identified as “Chinese Boxing”. Kara had a different character, which meant China and later on it has been changed to empty.
I’ve known a lot of people all over the world and I can’t say that any one group I’ve encountered is any more racist than another. Prejudice on the other hand does seem to be more prevelent in certain towns and cities here in the states. I remember an awfull episode when I was four. My mom and I took the bus from Lake Charles to Shreveport to visit my Aunt. We were waiting for the return bus at the station and I was thirsty. I walked over to the nearest water fountain and had a drink. When I turned around this old man in a white linen suit and a straw panama hat was berating my mother for letting her boy drink out of the COLORED WATER FOUNTAIN! My mom was crying and shook her finger at him saying " you get away from me and my boy you hatefull old man!" Made an impression on me to this day. I have no tolerance for racism whatsoever. If anyone was on Ft. Benning in 74, 75, 76, I was the guy that wrote the challanges with my name, a time and date responding to the racist graffitti. No one ever showed up.
) [/B]
(hence why i posted it, to see what happened).
