Racism in the MA!

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Ok don’t get too excited.

I only recently joined this forum. I really like it because there are so many people here who are into the Chinese arts. I have been spending my time in a more general forum, and I picked up an impression that made me start this thread!

It seems to my ( possibly paranoid ) senses that a lot of Japanese styles are very ‘Anti’ other arts, and in particular the chinese systems. I find this hard to understand, as I have had Karate stylists being very rude to me about Kung Fu, and yet I thought that Karate acknowledged it’s origins as Chinese initially.

What’s the deal with this?

AndyM

2

When i used to goto jiu jitsu (breifly) they used to cuss wing chun.

I don’t think it’s japanese styles, i just think it’s pri.cks.

3

i THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH JAPANESE PEOPLE.

4

k

5

i think it has to do with people and their own attitudes, as sharky said before in his eloquent way :slight_smile:

david

6

Actually it depends on the styles.

If the style ends in Kempo/Kenpo than they do acknowledge their Chinese roots.
This is mostly true for Okinawan styles.

Other styles are either pure Japanese or have disassociated themselves from the Chinese ancestry.

7

pettiness is actually common in all echelons of the social construct.

i agree with dezhen, it is a matter of an individuals views.

peace

8

Japanese people ARE very anti- foreign like. At least in Japan. Just look how they thread the Koreans that live there. Or the GAIJINS (what did that mean now again, white devil? sounds pretty racist to me)

9

The problem isn’t necessarily martial arts being racist, it’s more culturally based. Look at it this way, the racial stereotypes abound on both sides of the issue-- there’s American stereotypes and other stereotypes. Pointing the finger at the Japanese and saying “Naughty, naughty! You need to be pure and non-racist like US!” is a bit nearsighted, IMHO. There’s racism among the Chinese, Americans, Brazillians, and probably even the Eskimos, so it seems pointless to slag on an entire culture for a facet that’s present in our own.

On the other hand, I do agree that racism in any situation is bad and should be dealt with appropriately. I don’t think that you have to be Chinese to learn kung-fu, or that Japanese styles are inferior, or anything like that. That’s just childish.

10

The japanese are the only racist culture on earth in modern times.

11

k

12

No they’re not

13

The term Gaijin does not literally mean white devil. Gaijin basically means “foreign person.” “Jin” is person, “gai” can sometimes be translated as bad or harmful, but in this case it’s more just an “outside person.”
White devil it is not. In fact, a lot of Japanese are very kind and understanding of gaijin. Some are not, some are *******s. It’s just the person. Some are stupid, some are brilliant. Some are moral, some could care less about morals. They’re not just “one” type of people :rolleyes:
But yes, some can be condescending and almost racist. Others are the complete opposite. In my experiences I’ve encountered more racism from the Chinese then the Japanese. :wink:
But people are people. These kinds of discussions are silly.

Ryu

14

Hi again guys,

just to point out that I’m not getting at the Japanese here, all the people I got that negative impression from were western people, playing Japanese arts. In fact, people who had probably never even been to Japan.

AndyM

15

I have japanese friends so it’s not that I’m flaming them as a people here :slight_smile: I’m just saying what it looks like from a foreign-er-dude-whatever

16

The cycle of abuse continues. Besides personal race, the reason for this anti-other arts attitude is best blamed on the individual teacher for passing on the idea. Competition between schools always lead to comtemptuous talk. “the guy down the street is no good, come be my student.” It happens on a broader base between whole styles. This also dates back to the severe hate between china and japan. People have no idea that the prejudice they are spouting on about has nothing even remotely to do with them in the west.

Kung fu is weak chinese dance, do karate; Karate is japanese posing and they copied what they could from kung fu, do kung fu." As so on for a thousand years. It’s stupid and its the teachers fault for training their students that way.

17

Well in truth, Karate is a fighting style from China…when the Okinowan masters got to a high level they would go to china to pick up more techs to strengthen their system.

Chinese Masters did this too, but since they were already on the mainland, they didn’t have to go far.

Think of it like England and the rest of Europe with swordfighting. English people went to Italy and Germany, but not many Germans and Italians went to England. English swordplay was very good, but the Italian masters eventually developed to a higher level with the rapier for single combat.

In Paradox of Arms, some English guy counters it all, but its basically the same thing in the Orient. The difference being that karate and Kung Fu are more similar than different. How can I go on about what they don’t have? How do I know? I can only judge by their students.

Bottom line, it depends on how much they know, and how well the students can apply it.

Your style won’t save you, knowlege and body intelligence will.

18

Hmm.

Funny how I live in racist Japan with many other Ex-pats and we seem to enjoy it. Got japanes wife, Family and work for japanese Companies.

Gaijin = literally means Alien or a non-japanese Person.
Sometimes it is used in a bad way to insult people.
Gai = outside
Jin = Person

The corrrect term is “Gaikokujin” or foreign national, but most shorten it to “Gaijin” for convenience.
koku = Country.

Yes, Japan & Japanese have some racist tendencies and so does EVERY nation on earth.
:smiley:

If Japan would be the only racist country, how about Israel??

Seeya.

19

My two cents

I think it is the result of many different factors. the first and most obvious is the “my style is better than their’s” attitude. Definately a killer in multi-culturalism.

But I think there are other factors which is just as devastating that makes japanese practitioners become anti-chinese MA.

First, wushu and the unobvious nature of kungfu forms.
Now, we know how the performance wushu are like. And we are very clear on distunguishing between them. However, as far as the non-chiense practitioners are concerned, they are all just CMA. Nothing different. Hence, by relating kung fu with performance wushu, they find CMA nothing much flashy, unusful moves.

Also, if you look at our forms, to an outsider’s point of view, they are very “flashy”. Or as least, the meanings behind them are no obvious. Does anyone still remember their first lesson ? And how we kept wondering " what the heck am I doing ? " In JMA katas, their the meanings of their moves are shown. A kick is a kick, a punch is a punch. but for CMA, things ain’t like that. Without this reference to their own style, they have no other conclusion but to state that they have no meaning at all.

Another thing. people tend to see kung fu as one style. Like karate. this kind of… degrading of status makes it less imposing in the mind.

There seems to be a somewhat “fix” concept of what “fighting” is. the straight punch, hook kick, wrestling, ideas seems to be quite hardwired into the common people’s minds. Together with reinforcements from training in that direction, people take it as the fundamental core of fighting. As long as this is satisfied, everything else is open to disuccsion. Now, if you demonstrate a CLF Sau quan, or a Mantis Dui sou, it has little resemblence with the fundamental core. hence, being classified as being “non correct” fighting techniques. Because it is not correct, it is of a lower form.

Actaully, i have plenty more. But I get the feeling what I have put down is already going to give rise to come controvasy. hence, I end it here.

20

wow - this thread has got a lot of posts since yesterday! Hopefully it won’t degenerate in to what’s been happening here lately…

Every society is unsure of something it doesn’t understand, hence ppl are generally more wary of other cultures. Hence when in another country, ppl of the same culture tend to stick together.

for example: the ‘chinese students’ at University as Sharky etc. mentioned already (in another thread). The Japanese/foreigner relationship is the other side of the coin. Both sides not sure of the other.

Of course, people are all different. For example, i have many friends at my Uni from all over the world. Most are chinese or malay/chinese in origin. But many others in my class have not even made any attempt at communicating or making friends with them. Kinda sux. Of course, my friends have not really been bothered or attempted to make any contact with them either. So it’s both sides fault.

If you still follow this prejudice and are teaching others, then of ocurse it may pass off on to them. Hence the reason why there is so much beef in MA today between styles and cultures etc.

david :slight_smile: